Ricoh c9200 Print Quality Issue

[TroyHoover]

Hello,

We just had a Ricoh c9200 installed a few weeks ago and we are having a print quality issue that we cannot seem to fix. The techs from the company we purchased the machine from have never seen this issue before, besides on our old press(I will describe later) and have tried altering many paper settings to no avail. They are currently working on it with Ricoh so I'm sure they will be able to at least figure out what is causing it, but in the meantime I figured I'd post this here to see if anyone has had this print issue before.

I would describe it as splotches of faded toner. I'm not sure exactly what the correct term for it is. The pictures I've attached show examples of it. IMG-01 is a full shot of an 11x17 sheet, the issue is present in the third column of players. The paper is being fed from the left side, where my hand is. IMG-02 is a close up of the issue when it is getting worse but before it grows enough to arc down the sheet. IMG-03 is a close up on the right side of an 11x17 sheet to show that sometimes it will happen twice on a sheet. IMG-04 is to show that it is happening on other colors.

It only shows up on 11 x 17 sheets and after the job has been running for a couple minutes, about 200 sheets in. It starts off very small at the top and bottom edges of the print, about 9 inches in from the lead edge. As the job continues to run, the spots grow and grow until they eventually create an arc across the page and connect. If I finish a stack of sheets and start printing more within 5 minutes, the issue will come back up within 50 sheets since the machine is already warmed up. Since it occurs when the machine is warmed up my first guess was that the fuser was getting too hot, but I tried changing the heat settings and the techs did as well but it did not help. I have the settings for the paper correctly entered, directly from the material spec sheets. I did try running at a thicker gsm than the paper actually is and it seemed to help a little but the problem still occurred. The issue does not appear when I print 8.5 x 11 so I can print at that size with no issues, but it is double the click charges. Fine for small jobs but not great for large jobs. My only other work-around so far is to print a couple hundred sheets, wait for the machine to sit for a little, print a couple hundred etc. The sheets we are printing on are die cut sheet labels. The techs and I tested the sheet label material with no die cuts whatsoever and it still happened, so it is not the die cuts causing it. I mentioned earlier that this had happened on our old press. Our old press is a Ricoh c900 this exact same issue would happen rarely on that press as well. The only difference is that it would only happen on our mid gloss and high gloss sheet labels and only on certain jobs. It seemed to happen mostly on jobs that had large areas of solid color in the artwork. The issue was never resolved because it would only pop up a handful of times a year. The c900 printed all of our other stocks with no issues. Now on the new press, the c9200, it is happening on all of our stocks, even our basic uncoated label stock. It is happening on all of the jobs as well no matter what the artwork is, even a black and white text job that I printed a few days ago. I went through the troubleshooting manual and tried the adjustments recommended for any print issue that was remotely close to what I am getting and none of them resolved the issue. I did not see a print issue described in the manual that accurately represented what is occurring on my prints.

Have any of you seen a similar print issue before? Did you find out what was causing it? Even if it isn't the same model or even a Ricoh, if you've seen something similar and found out what the cause was(e.g. heat, pressure, speed etc.), please let me know. Identifying what is causing the toner to appear like that is at least one step in the right direction, then I can move on to fixing it.

Thank you,
Troy

 

[tpmar]

Hey Troy; I had a similar problem on my ProC9100 a while ago on 80# gloss text. My tech suggested that I take whatever value I had in #92 (fuser nip width) and drop it by one. That's something you could try. Also the next time this happens you could assign the 2 test files I've attached to this same paper and see if it's more in any one color than the other. How old is your PTB? Also what kind of environment is your paper kept in as far as temperature and humidity. Just trying to throw some stuff out there for you to try. BTW; a well done post, good text and pictures. Looking forward to hearing how you get this one solved, good luck.

 

[TroyHoover]

Thanks for the reply Tom,

I will look into the Fuser Nip Width setting. I think I did try changing that the other day when I was going through the troubleshooting manual, but I am not 100% sure. I will try out those print files when it comes up again. The PTB is brand new, along with everything else. The machine was installed 3 weeks ago and it is a new machine, not used. Our entire facility is humidity and temperature controlled since the main aspect of our business is converting blank sheet labels. When I have a print job I request the sheets from our blank sheet converters and they make the sheets for me, so what I'm printing on is a fresh, new sheet. No old adhesive or dusty sheets going through the press. I will be updating this thread if and when I find any solutions.

Thanks again,
Troy

 

[wonderings]

You said you had the same issue on an older press that would have me thinking it might be something stock related rather then machine related. Is it only with the one stock you are using or is it repeatable with different stocks?

 

[TroyHoover]

On the old press, it only occurred on our mid gloss(semi gloss) and high gloss label sheets and it only occurred on layouts with large solid areas of toner.

On this new press it occurs on all of our label sheets, coated and uncoated and it happens on all artwork layouts, no matter the coverage.

Thanks,
Troy

 

[msaeger]

If it starts doing it consistently after running for a few minutes when it starts doing it I would open the door so it jams and see at what point in the process the defect happens. If it's on there before it goes through the fuser you know it's not a fuser issue. If you can't slide out the drawer with the paper transfer unit on it and need to to clear the close the door again for a few seconds and it will release.

 

[gsbatch]

Does it happen from all trays?

 

[TroyHoover]

Thanks msaeger, I will try that tomorrow.

tpmar, I tried lowering the Fuser Nip Width as you suggested and I found some interesting results. To start, the fuser nip width for the uncoated label paper was already set to "2"(total range is 1-4). I assume the Ricoh sets this automatically according to the paper thickness you choose in the basic settings because one of my custom papers that was at a higher thickness setting had it's fuser nip width already set to "4". So since my uncoated stock was already set to "2" I dropped it down to "1" as your tech recommended. I printed 1 sheet and received a jam error (J086 or J087, can't remember), it was at E1 and E2, right after exiting the fuser. I took out the sheet and it had the same splotch marks on it. This is the first time I've ever had it appear on the first sheet or a single sheet print job, it usually takes 100-200 sheets to start to appear. I printed this after the press had been sitting in low power mode for an hour so it definitely shouldn't have happened. This makes me believe even more now that it is something with the fuser that is causing the issue. Dropping the fuser nip width to "1"must have made the width too small which caused the jam but also caused the splotchy parts to occur immediately. Does this mean that at the normal nip width setting the fuser gets too hot or somehow gets too restrictive over time which causes the splotchy issue to occur?

On another note, after I got the press heated up and running on the normal settings and the issue started to occur, I ran the color test sheets you sent me. I've attached the pictures of the sheets here. The issue occurs on every color. The solid toner coverage really gives a clear picture of the print issue. The defect on the yellow ones are hard to see but they are there, much easier to see in person. The lead edge is the left edge, where my hand is.

Thanks to everyone for your continued input,
Troy

 

[TroyHoover]

Had to make a 2nd post of pictures. Attachment limit is 5 files

 

[TroyHoover]

gsbatch, Yes it happens on all trays.

Thanks,
Troy

 

[cDirect]

Troy, didn't Ricoh ask you to for all the stocks you were going to run on the machine and test for you before you purchased the machine? They did that to me with my 9110.

 

[cDirect]

Troy,
Forgot to mention that I would have them reload that paper catalog on your machine and that might help. I had to on my 9110 and it cleared up some issues on mine with colors being fuzzy near the end of the sheet.

 

[tpmar]

Thanks msaeger, I will try that tomorrow.

tpmar, I tried lowering the Fuser Nip Width as you suggested and I found some interesting results. To start, the fuser nip width for the uncoated label paper was already set to "2"(total range is 1-4). I assume the Ricoh sets this automatically according to the paper thickness you choose in the basic settings because one of my custom papers that was at a higher thickness setting had it's fuser nip width already set to "4". So since my uncoated stock was already set to "2" I dropped it down to "1" as your tech recommended. I printed 1 sheet and received a jam error (J086 or J087, can't remember), it was at E1 and E2, right after exiting the fuser. I took out the sheet and it had the same splotch marks on it. This is the first time I've ever had it appear on the first sheet or a single sheet print job, it usually takes 100-200 sheets to start to appear. I printed this after the press had been sitting in low power mode for an hour so it definitely shouldn't have happened. This makes me believe even more now that it is something with the fuser that is causing the issue. Dropping the fuser nip width to "1"must have made the width too small which caused the jam but also caused the splotchy parts to occur immediately. Does this mean that at the normal nip width setting the fuser gets too hot or somehow gets too restrictive over time which causes the splotchy issue to occur?

On another note, after I got the press heated up and running on the normal settings and the issue started to occur, I ran the color test sheets you sent me. I've attached the pictures of the sheets here. The issue occurs on every color. The solid toner coverage really gives a clear picture of the print issue. The defect on the yellow ones are hard to see but they are there, much easier to see in person. The lead edge is the left edge, where my hand is.

Thanks to everyone for your continued input,
Troy

Interesting. I know your machine is only a few weeks old, but even still just for diagnostic purposes you could swap fusers. I've had a few new parts (or freshly rebuilt parts) that have had a defect in them. Since it's in all colors I believe that would eliminate all PCU's and accompanying parts. When all of the colors come together that would be ITB, PTB, or Fuser. Thanks for the update and keep us posted.

 

[Digital Anthony]

Hi Troy,
did you get a resolution to this problem ?

 

[TroyHoover]

Hello Everyone. Sorry for falling off the face of the earth for a couple weeks there. Work and home life were both very busy and I just didn't have time to get back here and write a detailed reply. Myself and one of the techs from the company we purchased the press from continued to try changing settings to try and find a solution but we were not having any luck. We've officially sent out sheets for testing at by Ricoh's engineers.

In the meantime, the company we purchased the press from asked the local Ricoh rep that they work with frequently if he could take a look. He had our usual tech swap out the Fuser unit and the Paper Transfer Belt for new ones just to rule out any faulty parts before he could come in to test. Those were swapped out Friday and the issue was still present, so it's not faulty parts. The Ricoh rep came in today and after a couple hours ended up finding a temporary workaround. He activated "1341 [Adjust Paper Curl (Fusing)]" in the advanced settings for the custom paper settings and changed the speed adjustments here

http://support.ricoh.com/bb_v1oi/pub_e/oi_view/0001074/0001074901/view/adjustment/int/0196.htm

to 50%. This causes the ppm to be cut in half, but the issue does not present itself. We ran a couple thousand sheets of 11x17, both uncoated and mid gloss labels and it doesn't show up. This setting has the sheets running at an even slower pace than the Low Motor setting here

http://support.ricoh.com/bb_v1oi/pub_e/oi_view/0001074/0001074901/view/adjustment/int/0192.htm

. I know I actually messed around with that setting during some of my own testing I did before but I think some of my other settings were off so it didn't have the same results for me. Plus, I did not slow it down as much. The usual tech we work with said that this setting used to be called the sheet transfer interval(or something similar to that, I can't remember exactly) on the 7200 which he is more experienced with.

It's not optimal but it will get me through our print jobs for now and it gives me base to start from. I think I can probably up the percentage a little bit if I'm printing something with less toner coverage. The Ricoh rep agreed that this is just a workaround for now, not a fix. He is pretty sure that the engineers at Ricoh will be able to find a setting that will print our sheets at full speed or at least very close to full speed. I can print the 8.5 x 11 at full speed so that is promising.

I will come back and add another post with what the Ricoh engineers found when testing our label stocks.

Thanks,
Troy

 

[Skinflint]

Hello Everyone. Sorry for falling off the face of the earth for a couple weeks there. Work and home life were both very busy and I just didn't have time to get back here and write a detailed reply. Myself and one of the techs from the company we purchased the press from continued to try changing settings to try and find a solution but we were not having any luck. We've officially sent out sheets for testing at by Ricoh's engineers.

In the meantime, the company we purchased the press from asked the local Ricoh rep that they work with frequently if he could take a look. He had our usual tech swap out the Fuser unit and the Paper Transfer Belt for new ones just to rule out any faulty parts before he could come in to test. Those were swapped out Friday and the issue was still present, so it's not faulty parts. The Ricoh rep came in today and after a couple hours ended up finding a temporary workaround. He activated "1341 [Adjust Paper Curl (Fusing)]" in the advanced settings for the custom paper settings and changed the speed adjustments here

http://support.ricoh.com/bb_v1oi/pub_e/oi_view/0001074/0001074901/view/adjustment/int/0196.htm

to 50%. This causes the ppm to be cut in half, but the issue does not present itself. We ran a couple thousand sheets of 11x17, both uncoated and mid gloss labels and it doesn't show up. This setting has the sheets running at an even slower pace than the Low Motor setting here

http://support.ricoh.com/bb_v1oi/pub_e/oi_view/0001074/0001074901/view/adjustment/int/0192.htm

. I know I actually messed around with that setting during some of my own testing I did before but I think some of my other settings were off so it didn't have the same results for me. Plus, I did not slow it down as much. The usual tech we work with said that this setting used to be called the sheet transfer interval(or something similar to that, I can't remember exactly) on the 7200 which he is more experienced with.

It's not optimal but it will get me through our print jobs for now and it gives me base to start from. I think I can probably up the percentage a little bit if I'm printing something with less toner coverage. The Ricoh rep agreed that this is just a workaround for now, not a fix. He is pretty sure that the engineers at Ricoh will be able to find a setting that will print our sheets at full speed or at least very close to full speed. I can print the 8.5 x 11 at full speed so that is promising.

I will come back and add another post with what the Ricoh engineers found when testing our label stocks.

Thanks,
Troy

What ever happened with this issue?

 

[penmorprepress2]

I'd like to know what happened with issue myself as we have had the same problem on our C9210 and the techs have been unable to definitively figure out the problem. We tried the settings above and unfortunately did not have any noticeable effect other than slowing down the press.

 

[grahnman]

We've had the same problem with our C9210 since we installed it two years ago. It kind of makes the inline Plockmatic we bought with it worthless since it's difficult to print full bleed booklets without this issue showing up after a couple of sheets (one of the key selling points they made).
After a bunch of troubleshooting sessions with Ricohs product specialist here and there over the years they were leaning towards replacing the machine. Recently they encountered the same issue with one of their demo machines and because of this Ricoh now considers the errand closed with the fix being to slow down the press.
My bosses aren't very happy to say the least...

 

[1stopcdshop]

We are having the same issue(C9200) on the guts of our mixed media books (100GC & 70GT), the only solution I have found is to turn down the pressure roller temp. You may need to go up or down depending on the stock and your current settings but don't be afraid of adjusting all the way to the ends of the spectrum. Our default temp on the guts is 90 but ive been having to set it down to 30 on start up every morning and then keep an eye out as in our case it begins to get "foggy" after 30-50 books and i have to bring it back up to about 45(which is still only half of the default setting)

 

[TroyHoover]

What ever happened with this issue?

Sorry about the two year delay, I thought I had posted a final reply to this thread but I guess I didn't. The testing ended up going all the way up the chain until our label stock was at Ricoh headquarters in Japan. They ran a bunch of tests and just determined it was our material. Very disappointing as our label stock is not very exotic and is lighter than a lot of cardstocks that are used within the industry. The only solution they had was the slow down solution and I've been using that ever since. If the file we are printing has a decent amount of coverage, I usually have to print between 70% - 75% motor speed. If there is a lot of negative white space with just a little bit of text or graphics, I can usually get away with bumping it up to 100% motor speed. My boss was not happy with the Ricoh reseller we bought the machine from as the print speed was one of the selling points, but the previous machine we were using before this was at least 10 years old and the size of the jobs we usually print are small enough that the slower print speed doesn't make a huge difference, so we decided to stick with it.