Ricoh's Ikon acquisition

[gcspec]

EA toner is not pulverized nor is the 700 "plastic". Either way, on our side of the aisle, we can offer our customers not only 1 production solution, but over 6 to assure the proper fit with your business. Curious how many KM people are on this site aggressively defending their products...

 

[KMGI Sales]

gcspec - I think I will let our devices speak for themselves. And recently they have been doing alot of speaking at alot of your accounts.....

 

[GregNac19]

gcspec - I think I will let our devices speak for themselves. And recently they have been doing alot of speaking at alot of your accounts.....

I will repeat a past entry that still applies to this thread.
"Same stuffing beating here! By the way my chest hurts every night because of the killer product (DC700s) sold in my territory. I have never seen and I don't even think there is a KM 6501 or 6500 in my entire terrritory!
But hey, that doesn't mean the KM6501 doesn't exist. There us just a better chance of seeing a Leprechauns, a balanaced budget, Al Gore with a fun personality, ABC-NBC-CBS with non-biased coverage, Cubs winning the World Series, Disney World saying "come stay with us for free", Michael Vick being spokesman for PETA, and Barkack Obama realizing Global Warming has been over for 2 years and we as humans having no effect the climate change.
Yeah that'll be the dayhaha that I die!"

 

[gcspec]

Yep, they are speaking loud and clear with the smallest of the quick print shops when a used or repo'd unit is presented where the price is like, $20,000 less than my price. So let's be honest here KM sales guy, where I was in the mix, I lost about a third of the face offs against KM - always against Ikon by the way. (never KM direct) The only strategy used was to sell extremely cheap, like $15,000 or used/repo machines. 1 of those shops have already gone bankrupt, another is for sale and one of them is starting to have trouble getting the toner for the CPP model. Where the Xerox 700 went up against KM directly and a decision was made on quality first, price second, we won every single time. So the speaking I'm hearing is, cheap, cheap, cheap! Funny, though, since Ricoh bought Ikon, haven't even heard the name "Konica" in the any of the proposals since January 1st. (one of my customers needs a piece of tape to hold his 2 year old Konica CPP550 running - customers really like how that looks - at least it's clear tape, not as visible)

 

[Jtamoe46]

These are some good posts. Very entertaining. I have seen the Konica machine run and it is a good competitor with the 700. I could understand it coming down to a coin toss with some customers. That being said I have had a lot of success against the Konica Machine.....but they were dog fights.

I believe it comes down to the better sales person, who has a better support team (service, resources, knowledge) and experience in the market place.

The Konica Minolta reps are good in my area, but I have a larger client base that shows upside...5000's, 7000's and 8000's. Couple of Igens as well, so I have a good story and history to work with. But even though I am biased towards Xerox...it is hard to knock the machine too much...unless of course the customer wants to run over 30 k per month....then it tends to have challenges in my experience

 

[Russ Gamble]

Buy direct

Buy direct

I would buy from the manufacturer if possible. They can't be bought out or cut off.
Russ

 

[jrsc]

These are some good posts. Very entertaining. I have seen the Konica machine run and it is a good competitor with the 700. I could understand it coming down to a coin toss with some customers. That being said I have had a lot of success against the Konica Machine.....but they were dog fights.

That's funny. I was considering flipping a coin between the two today since I can't come up with any good reason to choose one over the other.

 

[GregNac19]

That's funny. I was considering flipping a coin between the two today since I can't come up with any good reason to choose one over the other.

How about supporting USA and buying Xerox.

 

[LANgrafix-com]

FIERY IC-305 or PRO-80: IKON CPP650/CPP550/CPP660 and Konica Minolta C5500/6500/6501

FIERY IC-305 or PRO-80: IKON CPP650/CPP550/CPP660 and Konica Minolta C5500/6500/6501

Missy,

Whichever unit you decide, any of the Konica Minolta C5500/6500/6501 or any of the clone IKON CPP650/CPP550/CPP660 color copier units, we can sell you the very best controller built for this copier for peanuts – the IC-305 or the IKON PRO-80 for peanuts. The units are brand new in box, fully loaded and complete, the latest v2.0 build and include our unmatched 3 year warranty. We have a variety of 14 of these units new in box and they will not last. Dealers, we will smash even the non-for-profit pricing the Konica Minolta Corp gives you. All these units are leftovers we were shipped straight from EFI. Make us offers while this extremely hot moving units last.

Again, this is very coveted Fiery IC-305 or the IKON Fiery PRO-80.

847-760-9282 or e-mail us at customercare (at) langrafix.com

 

[GregNac19]

Missy,

Whichever unit you decide, any of the Konica Minolta C5500/6500/6501 or any of the clone IKON CPP650/CPP550/CPP660 color copier units, we can sell you the very best controller built for this copier for peanuts – the IC-305 or the IKON PRO-80 for peanuts. The units are brand new in box, fully loaded and complete, the latest v2.0 build and include our unmatched 3 year warranty. We have a variety of 14 of these units new in box and they will not last. Dealers, we will smash even the non-for-profit pricing the Konica Minolta Corp gives you. All these units are leftovers we were shipped straight from EFI. Make us offers while this extremely hot moving units last.

Again, this is very coveted Fiery IC-305 or the IKON Fiery PRO-80.

847-760-9282 or e-mail us at customercare (at) langrafix.com

I need a couple for my living room. Should I pick the Fiery or the IKON? Do they come in plaid?

 

[LANgrafix-com]

Seriously, what is the point of your posts?

Seriously, what is the point of your posts?

Greg,

Seriously, what is the point of your posts? I see all these "actually" helpful comments, and then there is your um, "comments". “Plastic is lighter than steal” ... how embarrassed are you of that poorly thought through comment? That has got to be hands down, one of the worst industry OEM comebacks I have heard in quite some time. The intelligent guys at Xerox are cringing when they see one of their own writing laughable garbage like that. Umm, lets see, copier plastic becomes brittle with age, melts, cracks, screws strip plastic and plastic always shatters eventually. 100% degradable and made like this in order to break and stay under tight service. Awesome trying to ship a used unit that inevitably weighs 500 – 1500 lbs just to have a ton of parts crack and break off even under the best freight conditions. Concepts like using all plastic in the “workhorse” areas of the copier are why Xerox is another doomed American brand… oh yeah, American only in the USA, FUJI owned in the rest of the world. So, so sad. That goes without mentioning hording all their own distribution instead of franchising it out so customers actually have a variety of choice on service. Don’t like your local Xerox tech? Tough luck if you have a Xerox machine, because that one rep is the only choice you have – no competition at all for service, so forget getting a decent per click rate as well. Once you buy into Xerox, you are stuck with whomever locally handles your Xerox service. Konica, Ricoh and Canon? Tons of service providers everywhere to find your best click rate cost. That goes without mentioning the most ludicrous GE-like bureaucracy of God-awful slow and just downright poor decision making I’ve ever seen in a company. I love my country, but business models like this one is why our country is crippling itself. Xerox has been a very troubled company since 1998. When Konica Minolta finally buys out Oce, Xerox, the CO’s at Xerox will be in trouble. Who do you think is helping to design all the latest Konica Minolta steal-gut concepts? Ripping on an OEM for using steal parts instead of plastic… lord…. a dozen Xerox sales were just lost on that one…. and counting…

 

[gcspec]

More of that Konica Anger

More of that Konica Anger

Wow! Once again, I have to hand it to you Konica guys. The anger and rage built up inside must actually be painful. I could sit and disect all the "poorly thought" comments you made like, "Don’t like your local Xerox tech? Tough luck if you have a Xerox machine, because that one rep is the only choice you have – no competition at all for service...". So that means if you have Ikon/Ricoh as your provider and you don't like your tech, no problem - just switch to Konica direct, right? Oh yeah, but you're signed to a maint. agreement, so you can't do that either. There is plenty of healthy competition out there, yet the fact is, Xerox, in this down economy is actually growing revenue and is profitable.

We could spend all day ripping your thoughts to shreds, but what's the point? Another Mr. Angry Konica-Guy would just pop-up and start ranting about why they are so much better! Ever try matching color month-to-month with a Konica box? Ever see the Xerox 700 go up against the Ricoh C900 where quality was even a concern of the print customer? Unless having banding in gradients is good and toner that you can draw in with your fingernail, that's a lost cause my friend.

 

[LANgrafix-com]

Greg, my fine feathered friend...

Greg, my fine feathered friend...

Greg, no one is angry with your spattered comments in this thread, just annoyed. You’re like a pre-teen in a fine restaurant who is acting completely unruly and vulgar and the parents just sit there pretending their child is just adorable while everyone else is annoyed. You’re just mad because I’m the guy that just told your dad to stop your son from ruining everyone else’s meal and everyone just clapped for me embarrassing you and your parents.

1st thing, I’m not a Konica guy – I’m totally neutral and sell only controllers for ALL brands and have watched what ONCE was a great American Company, Xerox, time and time again shoot itself in the foot as a limping major player, losing the #1 spot in color to Canon back in 1999 and now you have KonicaMinolta hot on your tails. Also, get the facts right: when I say you don’t like your local Xerox tech, tough luck, that means you have no other X-E-R-O-X service outlet to turn to and you are stuck with a Xerox piece of equipment. Of course you work for Xerox – look how cocky you are. You are so obviously a tech that has never had to be concerned about accounts going anywhere because, um, they can’t. They are stuck with you. All the other OEM’s, they franchise out their distribution and service, so if you have a Canon let’s say, then you have at least 3 Canon authorized dealer service providers who compete with one another for your business. KonicaMinolta and Ricoh are the same. All the other “5th tier” OEM’s would be like this as well if they had enough distribution spread out. Competition puts the dollar power in the customers hands. Your argument is also that your customers are locked into to your service contracts, so they can’t go anywhere. Wow, that’s an awesome way to broadcast to millions in this thread your, and Xerox’s, better-business technique. As bad as you just made your company look with that comment alone, it is still not on target, and actually worse: Xerox locks in it’s customer base by not giving equipment owners a service choice other than their own local service branch. One branch – you deploy one set of agents, from one local branch, so if you don’t like your service with Xerox and you are an equipment own and “bound” to a service contract, you are a very, very unhappy camper. And “We”, who is this “We”? No one at Xerox with any intelligence is standing by you on these rants. You’re mentality here is an excellent example of what to expect from Xerox support – service agents who have NEVER experienced any real competition threat once a customer is sold a unit. That customer is stuck with the likes of you. Why are all the other OEM's service techs, for the most part, so much more humble? Because they don’t have the over-bloated ego your company has created in its own service distribution and they are actually monitored for thier customer service. I’ll bet the Xerox sales reps are far less cocky simply because they have the other OEM’s product to contend with. By the way, Xerox is far from profitable – wasn’t your company just busted a year ago for using recently signed service and lease contracts to influence their “current” stock value as if that “projected” income was currently liquid? Awesome – way to go Xerox – set that example to the world for how American companies operate, deceiving even your own stock holders.
Also, your complaints about the Konica Minolta sales reps that are popping up here trying to sell a product, while you snipe in and take personal jabs and make snide comments… where’s your sales pitch? At least these KM guys are trying to sell, you know, “working”, doing their job. You? You are wasting time with your jabs and rants – not a single pitch from you to move a formidable Xerox machine. How long before Xerox comes begging for a bailout? Or should I say Fuji-Xerox. Not very American anymore in all the rest of the world, huh. American companies like yours with guys like you just annoy the rest of the USA that would actually like to be working for US owned companies, but you just keep losing your pants when the race starts with the rest of the Asian owned OEM. When Konica Minolta buys out OCE, that will be a dagger to the side of the once great, but now inbred and dumpy Xerox corporation. You guys could be Microsoft, but you fired that 1st “Home PC” concept development team back in 1969 because that idea was “ridiculous – who’s going to want a home computer?”: the beginning of the Xerox decline.

Now I am wasting valuable time like you in effort to deem you a pinch of “reality” knowledge… UH! Get me out of here… I have to actually work…

 

[GregNac19]

Wow a lot of love in here. Next time why don't you spread all your hate out into multiple reply's. It is like reading war and peace! Look I know you are scared of the Xerox animal other wise you would not use an entire page of propaganda.
The truth is I have sold Xerox over 7 years and I am obviously bias. I do not have Canon or KM machines in my territory for a good reason.
When comes down to customer satisfaction saying,"I'm cheaper", doesn't work. I have never lost when I propose the Xerox 700 because it does what my customers need. (Auto duplexes coated and uncoated, tight registration that can be dialed in by the customer, Decurls the hardest to flatten paper (no need to fool with the paper before you finish the paper), Customer Replaceable units which allow you to stay up and running without a technician these include; Toners, Drums Fusers, Waste Containers, Coritron Charge. My Service is the best around with an average of 23 plus years experience. My technicians have a direct link to the engineers who made the machine. Do you?
You mentions no one was backing me on my post, well it was not me who is in between your two long and boring post.
Oh yeah let me update you on your 90's view of Xerox. In case you did not know Xerox is sold through Global now. They can service you machine just like any other Copier"Dealer" for any other brand. Plus if you don't like you technician, YOU CAN ASK FOR ANOTHER PERSON TO COME. I have a small few customers today who just don't like one service person. Guess what I get some one else to service his machine.
Your whole rant really said nothing and sounded like a politician.
I like to add humor forum time to time because this forum can get boring with only people saying "look at the Ricoh 900 or the KM6501".

 

[Trish]

Ikon/Konica

Ikon/Konica

I'm looking for insight on how this acquisition might impact Ikon's current relationship with Konica Minolta. Everything I've read is focused on the negative impact that Canon has suffered, but no one has touched on the stability between Ikon and Konica. I'm shopping for a production printer, and the co-branded Ikon/Konica machine is winnning the race. But if Ikon will soon be ill-equipped to service this machine, I don't want to go anywhere near it.

Has anyone looked into this? I'd appreciate any information at all that might help me make an informed decision. Thanks so much.

If you are looking at the Ikon CPP 650 relabled, was a Konica Minolta...run.We purchased this machine in Aug. of 2007, Ikon knew it had defective parts and sold it to us anyway.Two years later we are still fighting with them.They dropped us from our maitenance agreement like a hot potatoe.We have no recourse as we are not rich, we are stuck with this pos.Anyone else out there have this experience??

 

[Trish]

Ikon CPP 650

Ikon CPP 650

I run several Ikon CPP650s and several of the consumables as well as parts in the Ikon are Konica branded products, developer, etc. so we will see. The Ikon supply chain so far has been great and I am receiving a Ricoh C900 Pro in three weeks.

I would like to know what state you are from.I live in CT, we bought an Ikon CPP 650 in Aug.2007.Ikon knew about the drum blade flipping problem when they sold us this machine.It took ten months to get the redesigned parts from Japan.We paid our bill every month even thought our printer spent most of the time down because of this issue.We still have down time every week, they are unable to get this machine up and running for more than a week for the past two years.You can only get parts and service from Ikon, no one else wants to touch it. But good luck.

 

[Trish]

Yep, they are speaking loud and clear with the smallest of the quick print shops when a used or repo'd unit is presented where the price is like, $20,000 less than my price. So let's be honest here KM sales guy, where I was in the mix, I lost about a third of the face offs against KM - always against Ikon by the way. (never KM direct) The only strategy used was to sell extremely cheap, like $15,000 or used/repo machines. 1 of those shops have already gone bankrupt, another is for sale and one of them is starting to have trouble getting the toner for the CPP model. Where the Xerox 700 went up against KM directly and a decision was made on quality first, price second, we won every single time. So the speaking I'm hearing is, cheap, cheap, cheap! Funny, though, since Ricoh bought Ikon, haven't even heard the name "Konica" in the any of the proposals since January 1st. (one of my customers needs a piece of tape to hold his 2 year old Konica CPP550 running - customers really like how that looks - at least it's clear tape, not as visible)

I am one of those small print shops that bought the Ikon CPP 650, actually a Konica.It was sold to us as a production machine.Ikon knew about the blade flipping issue when they sold it to us in Aug.of 2007.For the next 10 months we spent more time down waiting for the new redesigned drum units.Did we get compensated for this?NO, we paid our monthly payment to them and they screwed us over.We don't know how much longer we are going to be able to hold on.We are stuck with this machine because we don't have the money to fight them, and they don't have what it take to stand up and say they made a mistake.Anyone else out there in my shoes??

 

[LANgrafix-com]

This thread is still going?...

This thread is still going?...

Gregnac19, a-l-r-i-g-h-t!!! Bravo!!! A Xerox agent trying to sell something here! Good for you – Nice job! Way to change the pace, but you might want to give gcspec a few kicks in the frying pan (wink-wink). Also, you are going to want to make sure in your following posts that your multiple plural during singular proper usage and vice-versa in your sentence structure is kept to a minimum, because it really works against your defense of Xerox and your attempt to sell. Poor grammar and spelling bugs everyone, but it just downright snuffs out a sale in the “my product and service is better than yours” game. Readers start to draw mental pictures of buck teeth, crossed eyes and whatnot. Bad for business. Anyway, again (and again) we sell controllers for copiers and don’t care which copier you peddle, seriously, we are NOT a KM dealer nor do we ever wish to be – we are a bystander, neutral, but very observant, in the office equipment industry. Xerox has made some very bad decisions over the years, and, just like everyone else, their employees need to have their ego put in check, and the way that corporation does business DOES NOT favor the customer who buys into the product, plain and simple. Not a bad machine, just a very bad corporate infrastructure and an even worse equipment distribution and service plan. A very selfish corporation indeed.

On another note, Trish, try seeking out service from any Konica Minolta dealers instead of Ikon. Some might turn you down, but several would be glad to pick up your equipment, but you have to get out there and make some calls and speak to the right people. There is always a slightly less interest in office equipment sales to pickup pre-existing equipment than there is selling the whole package. Unfortunately that is just the nature of the beast, but you can always find someone who wants your business, no matter how small it might seem. So don’t be discouraged if the first KM dealer you call is turns you down, or is even lame enough to make the comment “No KM dealer will pick your unit up (adding in his or her reason)”. This is a common technique to get you to believe that that particular dealer is the “Know All”. KM dealers, just like all of them, have a few “Car-Salesmen”, and you have to just understand that, and use the same tactics you would in buying a car. See Gregnac19 and gcspec, we have no particular loyalty… we bash and praise all OEM’s equally, and due to the enormous amount of KM dealers, you WILL find many “car-salesmen” amongst those dealers, and more than we have seen with all the other OEMS. It is KM’s quarterly hard push for new sales that bring these characters on-board most of these dealerships. A lot of that has changed though since KM went in and shut down every other one of their dealers in the USA following the Minolta acquisition. Don’t let that scare you off though, there are probably more “friendly” privately owned “mom & pop” and “father & sons” owned KM dealers in the nation than we have seen in any other OEM’s franchise, so there is the good with the bad. A lot of those smaller shops are hard working and eager for your penny per click. So try contacting every KM dealer within a 100 mile radius to get some other options going. The only thing KM dealers cannot get for you right now are the EPROM updates on in the Ikon built units’ main boards should the copier need any updates. All the other parts are no problem and interchangeable from Ikon clone to KM true-models. I know a KM privately owned outfit here in Chicago that has taken on over a dozen Ikon rebadged c6500 units and KM corp is fine with it. KM is currently in the process of suing Ikon for the rights to reprogram all the Ikon rebadged copiers due to the Ricoh acquisition of Ikon. Canon and Toshiba are also in that class action lawsuit. The Ikon acquisition may be the fall of Ricoh if they don’t get all that red tape figured out because they are losing Canon, Toshiba and Konica Minolta customers by the dozens everywhere in the nation. Anyway, some decent KM outfit should be able to fix your blade issue in no time, so just go to the KM website dealer finder and set it for a 100 mile radius from your location and start making some calls stating that you “have a C6500 clone that you would like to have serviced”.

 

[Trish]

I hope Ikon spontaneously combusts personally.They sold me a Konica Minolta relabeled under Ikon CPP650 which was a piece of crap from the day they plugged it in.Everyone of these printers had defective blades on the drum units.They sold them anyway and I was one of them here in CT.There was an inhouse recall on them through Konica Minolta that never went public to the buyers of this printer.We had to wait ten months for the new drums, the only reason we knew was because our tech felt bad for us knowing we were a new business.How's that for ETHICS!!So excuse me if i have a very bad taste in my mouth.We are two years into a four year lease and Ikon won't evern talk to us. The printer is pretty much toast.So stay away from anything from Ikon or relabeled from Konica Minolta. They don't stand behind their product, they are money grubbing, and they certainly don't care about us.

 

[GregNac19]

Gregnac19, a-l-r-i-g-h-t!!! Bravo!!! A Xerox agent trying to sell something here! Good for you – Nice job! Way to change the pace, but you might want to give gcspec a few kicks in the frying pan (wink-wink). Also, you are going to want to make sure in your following posts that your multiple plural during singular proper usage and vice-versa in your sentence structure is kept to a minimum, because it really works against your defense of Xerox and your attempt to sell. Poor grammar and spelling bugs everyone, but it just downright snuffs out a sale in the “my product and service is better than yours” game. Readers start to draw mental pictures of buck teeth, crossed eyes and whatnot. Bad for business. Anyway, again (and again) we sell controllers for copiers and don’t care which copier you peddle, seriously, we are NOT a KM dealer nor do we ever wish to be – we are a bystander, neutral, but very observant, in the office equipment industry. Xerox has made some very bad decisions over the years, and, just like everyone else, their employees need to have their ego put in check, and the way that corporation does business DOES NOT favor the customer who buys into the product, plain and simple. Not a bad machine, just a very bad corporate infrastructure and an even worse equipment distribution and service plan. A very selfish corporation indeed.

On another note, Trish, try seeking out service from any Konica Minolta dealers instead of Ikon. Some might turn you down, but several would be glad to pick up your equipment, but you have to get out there and make some calls and speak to the right people. There is always a slightly less interest in office equipment sales to pickup pre-existing equipment than there is selling the whole package. Unfortunately that is just the nature of the beast, but you can always find someone who wants your business, no matter how small it might seem. So don’t be discouraged if the first KM dealer you call is turns you down, or is even lame enough to make the comment “No KM dealer will pick your unit up (adding in his or her reason)”. This is a common technique to get you to believe that that particular dealer is the “Know All”. KM dealers, just like all of them, have a few “Car-Salesmen”, and you have to just understand that, and use the same tactics you would in buying a car. See Gregnac19 and gcspec, we have no particular loyalty… we bash and praise all OEM’s equally, and due to the enormous amount of KM dealers, you WILL find many “car-salesmen” amongst those dealers, and more than we have seen with all the other OEMS. It is KM’s quarterly hard push for new sales that bring these characters on-board most of these dealerships. A lot of that has changed though since KM went in and shut down every other one of their dealers in the USA following the Minolta acquisition. Don’t let that scare you off though, there are probably more “friendly” privately owned “mom & pop” and “father & sons” owned KM dealers in the nation than we have seen in any other OEM’s franchise, so there is the good with the bad. A lot of those smaller shops are hard working and eager for your penny per click. So try contacting every KM dealer within a 100 mile radius to get some other options going. The only thing KM dealers cannot get for you right now are the EPROM updates on in the Ikon built units’ main boards should the copier need any updates. All the other parts are no problem and interchangeable from Ikon clone to KM true-models. I know a KM privately owned outfit here in Chicago that has taken on over a dozen Ikon rebadged c6500 units and KM corp is fine with it. KM is currently in the process of suing Ikon for the rights to reprogram all the Ikon rebadged copiers due to the Ricoh acquisition of Ikon. Canon and Toshiba are also in that class action lawsuit. The Ikon acquisition may be the fall of Ricoh if they don’t get all that red tape figured out because they are losing Canon, Toshiba and Konica Minolta customers by the dozens everywhere in the nation. Anyway, some decent KM outfit should be able to fix your blade issue in no time, so just go to the KM website dealer finder and set it for a 100 mile radius from your location and start making some calls stating that you “have a C6500 clone that you would like to have serviced”.

Again, you made a long post with accusations and no proof. When I say you talk like a politician I mean you speak on and on and say absolutely nothing. I just sold my fourth 700 in one town of 50,000 people. Still there is no KM 6500 or 6501 in my territory. I guess my " I can't use grammer" (spelled wrong on purpose) means nothing. If you want to rebuttal, how about use substance. I gave you reasons why Xerox is better. All you gave me was mistruths (lies) about Xerox. Where is the Konica Minolta is the best ever talk?
Thank about it.