RIP Upgrade?

[osmond]

We're old school color separator - still at CTF. We have a dolev800V and PSM 7 RIP and Brisque 3. Our problem right now is coping up with the new graphics applications with regards to its new features and plugins...Transparency issues particularly that our RIP cannot process accurately or in a fly.

Is there any other way to solve this or do we have to upgrade our RIP, process, or other application to use for us to cope up? Suggestions is most welcome.

Thanks in advance.

 

[DCurry]

Best thing to do would be to upgrade to a newer workflow like Prinergy so you can use the APPE, which will eat up transparency no problem.

To make do with what you already have in place, you need to be very aware of what is happening as far as transparency. Stacking order of objects is critical to prevent things like type and fine lines from being flattened when they are near something with transparency. Learning to use the Flattener Preview in ID is a must. My old shop ran PSM 7 right up until a year ago. If a transparency area couldn't be fixed with changing the stacking order, I would often force an entire area to be considered CT so at least the edges would be consistent.

A trick for doing that in InDesign is to draw a white box around the area you want to force to CT, apply a feather to the box (this invokes the flattener) and set the box to Multiply so that it disappears. What will happen is everything beneath the box will RIP into the CT on the PSM or Brisque. Also a good idea to set CT Res higher (20 instead of the default 12) -- this will clean up the edges a bit. Downside is it is time-consuming, requires lots of operator intervention and makes huge ripped files.

After years of doing that kind of fix, we upgraded to Prinergy and it was so much faster and easier to get work out.

 

[osmond]

Thanks DCurry.

How about in illustrator, do you have any trick to share?

Upgrading to Prinergy in our area/country will be a big challenge for us. It will be learn it yourself. There are only a handful of people who knows prinergy here. Kodak dealer here lacks the staff, training and know how.

Btw, whats the difference between Prinergy Evo and Prinergy Connect? Im not printer by the way, we're a service bureau.

 

[DCurry]

Illy will behave in the same fashion - use the Flattener Preview to see what is going to be affected, then mess with stacking orders to protect fine lines, type and vector shapes where possible. If there is an area that needs to be forced to the CT layer, you can use the Rasterize function to fix it in Illy. I don't recommend this unless absolutely necessary, as rasterizing results in fuzzier graphics, but you gotta do what you gotta do to achieve the best result.

When in doubt, do a test rip on the PSM to see what will happen. Vector-on-vector transparency will usually be fine and will RIP as LW -- it is only when you start to get into the raster-oriented Transparency effects that you need to be concerned (drop shadows, blurs, anything with soft edges.)

Where are you located? I would recommend that if you move to Prinergy that you get training. I thought they include it in the price (5 days at their training facility in Rochester, NY.) It is excellent training -- I left feeling like I was an expert, but if left to learn it on my own I would have been lost.

My understanding is that Evo is like a stripped-down Connect -- it doesn't use an Oracle database to track every little thing you do. There may be other differences, but I've never used Evo (and only used Connect for 6 months before changing jobs). Maybe someone who has used both will chime in with more details on the differences.

There are plenty of other workflows to consider -- Agfa Apogee (what I'm using now), Heidelberg Prinect, Fuji XMF, Rampage, Xitron to name a few. You want to make sure whatever you look at is using the Adobe PDF Print Engine 2.0 (APPE) so that you can be sure that it can gobble up your transparencies. If you look at upgrading to CTP at the same time, you can probably get the cost of everything tied into the price you pay for plates over the course of a few years.

 

[disbellj]

Have you tried exporting or saving PDF/X-1a from your programs, and dropping those PDF/X-1a onto rip hotfolder?

I still use NexusRip and rip PDF/X-1a's all the time. Will continue to do this until we upgrade NexusRip to TotalRip that has PDF trapping and no flattening needed during entire workflow, editing PDFs with Neo (which I was told we were going to do but haven't yet, and I doubt they will - I guess they've changed their minds - maybe cause when Esko wanted us to upgrade, our dongles for Insight and NexusEdit and Artpro, all of which were set with non-expiring license - all quit working.... almost like Esko was saying upgrade or we'll make you upgrade by breaking your dongle. I guess my boss' decided they didn't like how Esko played ball. BTW, our dongles never started working again, so that's many thousands of dollars of software that can't be used anymore. Damn, maybe my boss is starting to listen and not get raped any more by companies that do such things as making your dongles stop working everytime a big upgrade comes).

Regards,

Don

We're old school color separator - still at CTF. We have a dolev800V and PSM 7 RIP and Brisque 3. Our problem right now is coping up with the new graphics applications with regards to its new features and plugins...Transparency issues particularly that our RIP cannot process accurately or in a fly.

Is there any other way to solve this or do we have to upgrade our RIP, process, or other application to use for us to cope up? Suggestions is most welcome.

Thanks in advance.

 

[osmond]

DCurry - That's what we are currently doing right now, but eating up too much time. Im from Manila. Buying from a dealer here will cost me my legs and the support/training they can give might cost me my neck-not because of the price but I believe they're not trained enough to train us. Would rather buy somewhere and learn it myself. You're using Connect right? how is it?

Don - Im using PDF/X-1a. My problem is PSM 7.1 and Brisque cannot handle live transparencies. So we have to flatten everything first.

Thanks

 

[Van]

From one RIP to the next we have never had problems when we flatten transparencies. In your area sounds like FUJIFILM might be a good option since XMF uses the Adobe PDF print engine:

Asia Pacific | Fujifilm Global

 

[DCurry]

You're using Connect right? how is it?

No, I'm currently using Apogee. I was using Prinergy Connect at my last job and it was awesome. Between the two I much prefer Connect.

Good luck in your quest! Maybe an out-of-work Prinergy expert would enjoy a trip to Manila!

 

[osmond]

do i need to replace my interface card(SFL) and optic cable if I use prinergy?

 

[DCurry]

do i need to replace my interface card(SFL) and optic cable if I use prinergy?

I don't know. When we switched they removed the Brisque and replaced it with a Prinergy box. I think it connects via IP if I recall correctly.

 

[Joeno]

Esko

Esko

I upgraded to the new licensing withouth any problems. I do not understand why changing from dongles to a different licensing makes any difference.

Joe

Have you tried exporting or saving PDF/X-1a from your programs, and dropping those PDF/X-1a onto rip hotfolder?

I still use NexusRip and rip PDF/X-1a's all the time. Will continue to do this until we upgrade NexusRip to TotalRip that has PDF trapping and no flattening needed during entire workflow, editing PDFs with Neo (which I was told we were going to do but haven't yet, and I doubt they will - I guess they've changed their minds - maybe cause when Esko wanted us to upgrade, our dongles for Insight and NexusEdit and Artpro, all of which were set with non-expiring license - all quit working.... almost like Esko was saying upgrade or we'll make you upgrade by breaking your dongle. I guess my boss' decided they didn't like how Esko played ball. BTW, our dongles never started working again, so that's many thousands of dollars of software that can't be used anymore. Damn, maybe my boss is starting to listen and not get raped any more by companies that do such things as making your dongles stop working everytime a big upgrade comes).

Regards,

Don