Sending PDF Proofs

[AP90]

Judt wondering what shops do to the files when they receive them? I've had a few companies send print ready PDF files and then request pdf proofs back. Other than preflighting the files is there much else you do to the files for digital printing? We generally let our Fiery do the color conversion so that's an on press thing. Just would like some input. Thanks guys.

 

[arossetti]

If you do a color conversion at some point in your workflow then you should reflect that with the softproof you send the client IMO. In that case the softproof file should be converted using the same color settings your RIP will use.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Can the Fiery output to file using the same processing settings as when sending to print?


Stephen Marsh

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

Some shops aren't set up for something like PDF proofs. If my customer is looking for files to be printed same or next day, it is a logistical impossibility to send them back proofs (if you don't have a highly sophisticated system using automation).

 

[AP90]

Some shops aren't set up for something like PDF proofs. If my customer is looking for files to be printed same or next day, it is a logistical impossibility to send them back proofs (if you don't have a highly sophisticated system using automation).

Agreed. I guess what I don't understand is that most people will send the file, want a proof, get it back and never look at it. And if they do, their monitors aren't calibrated so they're not actually seeing what is going to be printed.

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

We have on-site graphic designers who each compose between 5 and 20 documents a day for clients, mostly from scratch like menus or posters, and some other jobs like slight modifications on postcards for a special or a new employee business card. We send out the proof with some very tense verbiage saying that we are not liable in any shape or fashion if you approve this. Now, every once in a while we'll misspell a main street in our town or something and we'll reprint if it's a stupid mistake on our end.

But anyways, you're exactly right - what's the point of a color proof if their display is not calibrated?

"Here's my new postcard, please print 10,000."
"Here's your proof."
"What is this for?"
"We normalized the colors so they reflect the true color of what will be printed."
"Oh okay, it looks great! - sent from my iPhone 7s glitter edition"


"Wait this isn't what the proof looked like."

 

[Andy_warp]

We use pdf softproofs for the client to check off on layout elements like text...where it will crop, material and quantities. Never for color or resolution.
We actually turn down pdfs for final output due to all of the "conversions" that can happen.

 

[Keith]

Some shops aren't set up for something like PDF proofs. If my customer is looking for files to be printed same or next day, it is a logistical impossibility to send them back proofs (if you don't have a highly sophisticated system using automation).

The only time my clients get a PDF proof is if we have to edit/manipulate/convert any part of their file. If it's just open and print, we don't send a proof. Mainly, for the reason Pricelinenegotiator said. Most of my jobs need to get done in two days or less. Having to wait on proof approval on a file they created seems dumb.

 

[arossetti]

I guess it depends on how sophisticated your client is. If they approve the file with your color settings the onus is on them to say the output device they viewed it on is accurate. If you're dealing with Bobby's Chop House that might be harder to explain post-mortem than to Apple Inc.

 

[Danny Whitehead]

Can the Fiery output to file using the same processing settings as when sending to print?


Stephen Marsh

I can't say anything for sure about AP90's, but based on ours, I expect they can. With our IC-308, we can export a raster PDF after processing... but we never do, even though our worknotes often request a 'ripped PDF proof'. In fact, 99% of the time, we send back the original PDF.

These requests stem from the practices at our other site, where they have a Prinergy setup. They drop incoming PDFs into Refiner, then send downsampled versions of the ‘refined’ PDFs to the client, mistakenly calling them ’ripped PDF proofs’… again, not truly ‘RIPped’.

All pretty silly, I know, but I've given up trying to explain to the reps that RIP doesn't mean what they think it does.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

I can't say anything for sure about AP90's, but based on ours, I expect they can. With our IC-308, we can export a raster PDF after processing... but we never do, even though our worknotes often request a 'ripped PDF proof'. In fact, 99% of the time, we send back the original PDF.

So 99% of the time soft-proofing is not actually happening and is just “busy work”, right Danny?

These requests stem from the practices at our other site, where they have a Prinergy setup. They drop incoming PDFs into Refiner, then send downsampled versions of the ‘refined’ PDFs to the client, mistakenly calling them ’ripped PDF proofs’… again, not truly ‘RIPped’.

All pretty silly, I know, but I've given up trying to explain to the reps that RIP doesn't mean what they think it does.

Agreed, the input PDF is refined (regenerated) – but not RIPed as that is a separate and different processing step and is why there are VPS and raster PDF output and many other options for the actual final processing.


Stephen Marsh

 

[Danny Whitehead]

So 99% of the time soft-proofing is not actually happening and is just “busy work”, right Danny?




Agreed, the input PDF is refined (regenerated) – but not RIPed as that is a separate and different processing step and is why there are VPS and raster PDF output and many other options for the actual final processing.


Stephen Marsh

I think the reps see it as confirmation we're using the correct file, but it proves nothing. If we were so disorganised that we'd potentially print the wrong file, that could just as easily happen after approval. I guess the 'refined' PDF proofs at least 'prove' one part of the workflow, albeit one that I suspect isn't necessary for most jobs. I think I recall Dov Isaacs suggesting as much on here, but I don't know Prinergy well enough to know. I see truly RIPed PDF proofs as a way of making sure nothing's gone wrong at the last point of potential issues (at least digitally) - the dots that hit the plate/drum. I'm just not sure whether or not to make the case for routinely sending them.

 

[semi-tech]

We send PDF proofs routinely. Our Xitron Sierra writes the PDFs and we send that out for press jobs, so they're getting a PDF of the plate file. I sometimes rotate the job for easier reading on the other end. For simple typesetting jobs (black only, usually) I would send a PDF proof of the file before it goes to the copier or press.

Our PDF proofs are mainly for layout and content. If anything's drastically wrong color-wise, I'll correct before sending anything out.

 

[DCurry]

We send PDFs on almost every job - very few get a hard copy proof. What I can't understand is the number of customers who then make copy changes, despite the fact that they provided us with a final PDF in the first place. For some reason they don't or won't proofread before sending it to us, even though it is fully within their ability to do so.

 

[dabob]

We send pdf proofs for every job . . and snicker about it when we send the same file back to them for "approval" and they find somethings wrong with the file they supplied . .. sometimes we even have to go through 2 or 3 revisions cuz they can't proof it correctly unless they send it to us . .. then we send it back . . its like the boss doesn't see it till it's in the proof is in their proof from printer box . . .

But we never even imply that its a color aligned proof its for content only

 

[semi-tech]

We send pdf proofs for every job . . and snicker about it when we send the same file back to them for "approval" and they find somethings wrong with the file they supplied . .. sometimes we even have to go through 2 or 3 revisions cuz they can't proof it correctly unless they send it to us . .. then we send it back . . its like the boss doesn't see it till it's in the proof is in their proof from printer box . . .

But we never even imply that its a color aligned proof its for content only

I think in our case the client's concern is that something shifted or a digital nasty might occur in the process of creating the PDF the client is sent. That's possible depending upon how their original PDF was made, but is relatively rare. I've taken to pointing things out in the proof I'm sending that were in the original, such as a low-res piece of artwork. Did that recently, and they decided to let it go (probably too much trouble to obtain anything better from the organization the art was sourced from).