Service Call Rate - Xerox 700 / KM C6501 / Canon C6000

[devenk]

This seems to be an interesting thread and from I've read. Got Toner put it simply and that you try it out the demos for yourself. Call your counterparts in the industry in your area and get responses from them.
Your criteria should have other aspects of importance aside to the service calls between volumes, what gives you the most ROI and overall best total solution. Xerox, Canon or Konica devices will give you the stats but that may not always hold true for all environments.

But if service is a key then ask information as to who the tech is, how many techs trained on the specific model, how many of that device does the tech(s) cover also who is the supporting analyst?

BTW, not sure of your quality needs, but KM has the new 65HC (High-Chroma) to support high end graphics. Built like the KM6501. Keep in mind it does not have a scan feature on it, not that many use it anymore anyway. It does require a rip as it should. Quality is immaculate. No other manufacture has the process yet.
Konica Minolta bizhub PRO C65hc Color Printing Equipment.

 

[rsands]

the 700 is still an early bird and has its problems! for one...its paper path is far from straight and level...it goes into the imaging part of the machine and has to travel down...use long grain paper and it will NOT go down this path...jams every other page. when it does go down...it can skip the page about and the colours wont reg on top of each other.

service call rate...average - at the start they never left our place. reg boards faulty, rips faulty, timing boards faulty, fusers not able to keep up to temperature (engineers cant fix it), mottle is bad (which they now have a document explaining how to fix and adjust for each paper type)...the list does go on...

 

[GregNac19]

the 700 is still an early bird and has its problems! for one...its paper path is far from straight and level...it goes into the imaging part of the machine and has to travel down...use long grain paper and it will NOT go down this path...jams every other page. when it does go down...it can skip the page about and the colours wont reg on top of each other.

service call rate...average - at the start they never left our place. reg boards faulty, rips faulty, timing boards faulty, fusers not able to keep up to temperature (engineers cant fix it), mottle is bad (which they now have a document explaining how to fix and adjust for each paper type)...the list does go on...

RSands I have sold 3 700's with none of these problems. What rip do you have and have you replaced the machine yet?
As far as straight paper path it is very straight. Do you have the Oversized feesder? Otherwise the bypass tray is very straight. I have run ever stock most printers would use and I have not even seen a jam on this machine.

 

[rsands]

it has the fiery rip in it. nothing but issues with it...engineers de-soldered a resistor from ones of the boards and it has helped considerably - its a known Xerox fault but only happens on certain machines. haven't requested a new machine yet...but if it keeps going i will be. we use the oversized feeder bins...the path as it enters the main unit isn't straight...it goes in and then down to the rollers and jams in that path going down.

 

[X33]

use long grain paper and it will NOT go down this path...jams every other page.

Rule #1 of Digital Printing : use short grain paper; digital papers are short grain.

 

[kt89]

Looking into this thread title, I wonder if anybody guru here could enlighten me.

1) Xerox 700 - Small Foot Print & Short Paper Path
2) KM C6501 - Small Foot Print & Short Paper Path
3) Canon C6000 - Huge Foot Print & Long Paper Path

The paper path seems to be great difference between these three models. The question is, what is the key difference between a short paper path machine vs a long paper path, other than specifications such as auto duplexing on heavy bond stocks.

 

[UberTech]

Looking into this thread title, I wonder if anybody guru here could enlighten me.

1) Xerox 700 - Small Foot Print & Short Paper Path
2) KM C6501 - Small Foot Print & Short Paper Path
3) Canon C6000 - Huge Foot Print & Long Paper Path

The paper path seems to be great difference between these three models. The question is, what is the key difference between a short paper path machine vs a long paper path, other than specifications such as auto duplexing on heavy bond stocks.

The c6000 is not really in the same class as a c6500 I think. I would have thought a c6000 was quite a bit more exspensive. I haven't actually seen a x700 so can't really comment on the paper path.

A long paper path is usually to accomodate a large transfer belt - Let me put that another way. If the transfer belt is large (long) the machine needs to be physically larger to accomodate this hense a longer paper path.

The c6500 has quite a small belt but it punch's above it's weight in my opinion. It also has the entire sheet in the ADU before transfer like any larger paper path machine.

 

[appstro]

I dont know about page count, but our xerox 700 needs service or repair 2-3 times per week. I am surprised by the amount of constant repair and color issues it has. We never had a digital press before, but our digital press operator has a bunch of experience. He says that the color isnt consistent and that its a POS. It cannot print 2 sided 100 lb cover in one pass. All the paper must be short grain. It cannot bind more than 24 pages it seems. It fish tails like crazy on some jobs. Forget envelopes. On the plus side the color looks better than most digital presses out there. There is no "embossed" look or build. We print alot on our press.

 

[RKS]

In our quest to find a machine that provided excellent quality, a good entry level price and a machine that could provide a launching pad for our entry into digital as we are a high quality sheetfed printer, that mainly deals with designers and ad agencies, we took several different files and had them run on a KM6501, Canon C6500, Indigo 5500, Xerox 5000AP, Xerox 7000AP and a Xerox 700. We found that the 700 had amazing color and looked closer to offset (without the toner peaks & valley's) than the other machines. Yes, the machine is slower on heavier weights, yes it has faults just like any other machine has, but the question you have to ask, does the machine provide excellent quality for a start into the digital world. YES IT DOES! We've overcome some of the registration problems, because we listened to the trainers (Fuji) on what to do. Mottling. Yes we saw some after a few weeks. We asked the question is there anything that can be done? The tech said he had seen it before and then made a call to the engineering department. They told him to check the charge to the sheet. It was set at 100 on a scale from 50-150. They told him to increase it by actually lowering the number to 80. The problem disappeared and hasn't returned. With any machine, it's how well you utilize the technology available, how well you implement it and how well you maintain it.

 

[X33]

With any machine, it's how well you utilize the technology available, how well you implement it and how well you maintain it.

I second this.

I see that most customers don't even get the time to listen and pay attention to their Trainers and Analysts. Don't even unpack the documentation that comes with the equipment.

 

[CSimpson]

I see that most customers don't even get the time to listen and pay attention to their Trainers and Analysts.

Many times this is because trainers and analyst don't know, especially on a new product. I have found on many occasions I know much more about the equipment and how to utilize it better than the sales and support staff. I run equipment every day sales and support staff don’t.

RSands I have sold 3 700's with none of these problems...I have run ever stock most printers would use and I have not even seen a jam on this machine.

In our quest to find a machine that provided excellent quality, a good entry level price and a machine that could provide a launching pad for our entry into digital as we are a high quality sheetfed printer, that mainly deals with designers and ad agencies, we took several different files and had them run on a KM6501, Canon C6500, Indigo 5500, Xerox 5000AP, Xerox 7000AP and a Xerox 700. We found that the 700 had amazing color and looked closer to offset (without the toner peaks & valley's) than the other machines.

As to the quality of the 700, I found it on par with the KM6501, which is pretty good for the money. Since I have only seen these machines at other locations for demonstration purposes I can’t comment on how jam free they run. But the quality doesn’t come close to an Indigo 5500 and I don’t think anyone should expect it to; there is a huge difference in price for a reason, one of which is the quality of the print.

 

[A.B Ula]

Looking into this thread title, I wonder if anybody guru here could enlighten me.

1) Xerox 700 - Small Foot Print & Short Paper Path
2) KM C6501 - Small Foot Print & Short Paper Path
3) Canon C6000 - Huge Foot Print & Long Paper Path

The paper path seems to be great difference between these three models. The question is, what is the key difference between a short paper path machine vs a long paper path, other than specifications such as auto duplexing on heavy bond stocks.

long paper path due to the dual fuser units Canon uses. however the main advantage of having dual fuser units is having rated speed at all media stocks types and weights. the first fuser takes care of media from 64gsm up to 150 gsm and the second fuser takes care of the media from 151gsm up to 300gsm. that ensures rated speed at all media types and weights. the fuser has 20 different temperature degrees depending on media weight and type to ensure color stability running on high speed.

thanks

 

[kt89]

long path

long path

So are you saying that a long paper path machine is better than a short one?

I know about the fusing portion, but the sales person seems to be putting all three machine as a direct comparison. Looking at the price, vis quality, it is rather hard to understand.

Why not comparing the C6000 with a DC6060/6000AP?

 

[CSimpson]

So are you saying that a long paper path machine is better than a short one?

I know about the fusing portion, but the sales person seems to be putting all three machine as a direct comparison. Looking at the price, vis quality, it is rather hard to understand.

Why not comparing the C6000 with a DC6060/6000AP?

A longer paper path just means when you have a jam you will throw away more paper per jam. This is because more sheets are usually in the paper path when a jam occurs. That is about it. How frequent a machine jams is more dependent on how well the paper moves through the path than how long the path is. Ask people who own the machines how jam free the machine runs. I wouldn't too much worry about how long the paper path is unless it is absolutely obnoxious.

The Cannon is being compare to the other two machines because it is the only thing Cannon has. If I am looking at a KM 6501 or a Xerox 700 a Cannon sales rep can only hope to talk me into upgrading to their box because they have nothing at that price point. Sometimes that might be a wise decision and other times it might not be. That is for you the print shop manager to decide.

 

[A.B Ula]

A longer paper path just means when you have a jam you will throw away more paper per jam. This is because more sheets are usually in the paper path when a jam occurs. That is about it. How frequent a machine jams is more dependent on how well the paper moves through the path than how long the path is. Ask people who own the machines how jam free the machine runs. I wouldn't too much worry about how long the paper path is unless it is absolutely obnoxious.

.

what really cause the jaming is the way the machine takes the paper from the cassettes.
production machine should not have more often jamming problems specially on high speed printing heavy weight stocks thats why thh canon is using the air-suction like offset machines to eliminate the jamming and to ensure un-interrupted productivity unlike some other machines which still using the rollers which cause so much jamming on heavy weighted stocks.

 

[A.B Ula]

Why not comparing the C6000 with a DC6060/6000AP?

because the C6000 not the VP version comes with single fuser unit thats why the speed isn't rated on this machine. considering the price of c6000, quality and the finishing option can be added to the machine i'd say its better if you exclude the hardware cost and consider the TCO of both 3 machines for lets say 3 years printing 35K per month in the first year with annual growth of 20% in printing volume and see how much u'll be saving,

thats how we do production business.

 

[StrikTenn913]

because the C6000 not the VP version comes with single fuser unit thats why the speed isn't rated on this machine.

This clarification has been made before, but the C6000 also has dual fusing... but it uses less power.

 

[TnT]

because the C6000 not the VP version comes with single fuser unit

As mentioned above this is not correct. Both have dual fusers.