Sheet feeder booklet maker recommendations

[Stickman42]

We've had Duplo DC10000 towers with a DBM 120 bookletmaker for a long while. Once we retired our offset equipment, we continued to hand feed the booklet maker or outsource. Now we have a potential client with a lot of booklet work. I was looking for good or bad experiences you could relate with Duplo, Horizon, Bourg, etc... bookletmaking equipment that is fed by a set/sheet feeder instead of towers. This is because all the output would be coming from our digital presses. My wish list includes the ability to change the stitch head clinchers to other styles (loop) and accomodation for up to 9" x 12" portrait booklets. My budget might be around $40K, so the newest equipment might be out of reach.

 

[MailGuru]

Define "a lot of booklet work" also, what type of digital press are you running?

 

[Stickman42]

Define "a lot of booklet work" also, what type of digital press are you running?

We're quoting quantities from 100 - 100M. Somewhere in between I would still outsource to an offset vendor.

We run Xerox Nuvera and Versants, and Oce web monochrome printers.

 

[MailGuru]

We run, on average, about 10,000 6 x 9 24 to 32 page booklets a week. We're running them 2-up on 12 x 18 sheets. Cover is 80# Gloss Cover. Insides are 60# Gloss text.

Back when we were running them on Xerox DC 8000's, and DC 8002's, we had to run the covers on 1 printer, and, the insides on a second printer. Then hand collate and marry the booklets at the Duplo Bookletmaker (we have 2). We had to do it that way to get any sort of production speed. Problem with the 8000 & 8002's was the extremely slow pause between the mixed cover & the text stock on the booklets.

Then we put in the Versant 2100. Due to it's "fuser belt" instead of a traditional fuser, the theory was that it would NOT slow down when switching between the cover & the text stocks. We tested and bench-marked our old production method against running both the insides & outsides on the V2100 and then outputting through the V2100's inline booklet maker for 6 months. Overall, the new method was faster end-to-end production AND we eliminated the possibility of human error in the hand collation/match/booklet maker process. We now have (2) Versant 2100's. Only down side is that the saddle-stitch staples that are used on the V2100 are much more expensive than the 25-gauge wire spools that we used to use on the Duplo booklet makers, and, the cartridges only contain 5,000 staples. Financially, though, it all works out because we have eliminated the manual labor time of collating and hand feeding the Duplo's.

I hear that the new Versants (180 & 3100) have enhanced booklet making features such as 3-knife trim for bleeds etc.

I hope this helps

 

[Stickman42]

MailGuru - thanks for sharing. What type of Duplo Bookletmakers did you use?

Our job "mix" is exactly that. Different trim sizes and page counts; covers most often need offline coating; 4CP covers with B/W insides is the most common, but occasionally we see a full color booklet order. That leads me to believe an offline bookletmaker is still right for us.

 

[MailGuru]

One is a Duplo System 3000 with face trimmer attached, and, the other is a DBM 200 with a DC 48TW trimmer attached. They are covered right now, as, we only use them 2 or 3 times a year. Our booklets are full color covers & insides, and, virtually every page is stocked with variable data/image so, offset is not an option for us, regardless of volume.

 

[MailGuru]

Oh, I should mention. No Towers. everything was just pre-hand collated and stacked "cris-cross", then hand-fed into the Duplo.

 

[Stickman42]

No Towers. everything was just pre-hand collated and stacked "cris-cross", then hand-fed into the Duplo.

Exactly the reason why I think a set/sheet feeder is in our best interests. This grows old very quickly with any increased level of volume.

 

[MailGuru]

This grows old very quickly with any increased level of volume.

It sure does! Not to mention the back pain when you are bent over at the Duplo feeder entry for hours. I'm about 6 feet tall, and, that feeder entry is only a little over 2 feet off the ground. Production costs had to factor in a bottle of Ibuprofen a week! LOL

 

[Stickman42]

It sure does! Not to mention the back pain when you are bent over at the Duplo feeder entry for hours. I'm about 6 feet tall, and, that feeder entry is only a little over 2 feet off the ground. Production costs had to factor in a bottle of Ibuprofen a week! LOL

HA! Been (am) there, and I'm 6'3"! Thanks again.

 

[AP90]

We've been looking at adding the same equipment as you. I think when we pull the trigger, it will be for a Duplo DSF system. I like it that it has a separate cover feeder.

Ive looked at Morgana, but there's doesn't have a cover feeder, and seems a bit slower than the duplo.

 

[jrsc]

I have a duplo 150 with a duplo 2200 sheet feeder. We like it. It's a very nice upgrade to your 120 but in the same production league. The sheet feeder works well and so does the booklet maker. It may be a bit small for your needs so you might want to look at the larger duplos. Remember with a sheet feeding system the more sheets you have the slower it runs vs a collator tower where it pulls all the sheets at once so the sheet feeder is really the limiting factor with the speed. Duplo does make a much faster sheet feeder that is also available. One thing to note on some of their units you can get collator towers and program them any way you want and basically sue them as sheet feeders. For example you can say I want to run 1 sheet for a cover out of this tray and 12 collated sheets out of another tray and when that one is empty roll over to another tray with the same sets.

 

[MailGuru]

I like our Duplo's. The only gripe I have is their company policy. Rather than service their existing equipment, if it goes down, they want you to buy new equipment.

True story:

One of our Duplo's went down a couple of years back. It needed a new main shaft. Only problem is, Duplo had discontinued carrying parts for their older equipment. Why? Because they want to pressure you into buying new equipment instead of fixing/servicing the old. We had to go to a machine shop to have them construct a new main shaft. Then, we called our Duplo dealer to come over and install the newly manufactured part. Our dealer informed us that it would be an additional $500 parts charge on top of the service call because we were installing a part that we did not buy through them. A part that we could not get from them, because Duplo no longer carried those parts. Does that make any sense?

Long story short - we terminated our relationship with our Duplo dealer and went with a third party service company that specialized in Duplo booklet-makers. Service is better, and, much less expensive.

It's good, sound equipment, though.

 

[Stickman42]

I have a duplo 150 with a duplo 2200 sheet feeder. We like it. It's a very nice upgrade to your 120 but in the same production league. The sheet feeder works well and so does the booklet maker. It may be a bit small for your needs so you might want to look at the larger duplos. Remember with a sheet feeding system the more sheets you have the slower it runs vs a collator tower where it pulls all the sheets at once so the sheet feeder is really the limiting factor with the speed. Duplo does make a much faster sheet feeder that is also available. One thing to note on some of their units you can get collator towers and program them any way you want and basically sue them as sheet feeders. For example you can say I want to run 1 sheet for a cover out of this tray and 12 collated sheets out of another tray and when that one is empty roll over to another tray with the same sets.

JRSC - thanks for the insight. I'm going to go on a demo of the 350 booklet maker and 2200 sheet feeder. That combo is already above what we wanted to spend, and towers would go even higher. There's a trade off for sure. At least with us printing digital, we can run collated or uncollated as needed.

 

[Stickman42]

I like our Duplo's. The only gripe I have is their company policy. Rather than service their existing equipment, if it goes down, they want you to buy new equipment.

True story:

One of our Duplo's went down a couple of years back. It needed a new main shaft. Only problem is, Duplo had discontinued carrying parts for their older equipment. Why? Because they want to pressure you into buying new equipment instead of fixing/servicing the old. We had to go to a machine shop to have them construct a new main shaft. Then, we called our Duplo dealer to come over and install the newly manufactured part. Our dealer informed us that it would be an additional $500 parts charge on top of the service call because we were installing a part that we did not buy through them. A part that we could not get from them, because Duplo no longer carried those parts. Does that make any sense?

Long story short - we terminated our relationship with our Duplo dealer and went with a third party service company that specialized in Duplo booklet-makers. Service is better, and, much less expensive.

It's good, sound equipment, though.

Guru - thanks again. I like to think we've got a good, strong relationship with our Duplo dealer. He also sells Ryobi, and was $ervicing our 6 single color perfectors back in the day. The stance Duplo is taking with regard to ending support for older products doesn't surprise me. I've encountered the same with Challenge, and seems to be the norm these days.