simple question

[Visualaid]

Good morning everyone,

We just got a 4 color press (pressman have been using 2 color) and I need to put color bars on cmyk files when sending to plate.

My question is an inexperienced one;

Anything special I need to do to these color bars? Basically, I printed a pdf out of indesign and added color bars in the print dialogue box; took that color bar pdf and put in illustrator so I could add on to make it span depending on the press sheet size. I've attached what I made as pdf. Will this work or does it have to be calibrated or anything more involved?

thanks,

 

[gordo]

Anything special I need to do to these color bars? I've attached what I made as pdf. Will this work or does it have to be calibrated or anything more involved?

Your color bar is not optimal. Attached is the proper sequence of colors and tones for the four colors. This grouping would then be repeated across the width of the press sheet. It gives your press operator solid and overprint patches clustered together so that they can be measured. Also has 50% patches to measure dot gain and 3/C grey patch beside reference 50% K.

best, gordon p

 

[Visualaid]

Your color bar is not optimal. Attached is the proper sequence of colors and tones for the four colors. This grouping would then be repeated across the with of the press sheet.

best, gordon p

Thanks for the response, Gordon...
however, I do not follow... sorry.
What do you mean it is not optimal?
Why does the sequence matter, and if we are printing on 4 color, can't the tones just simply be CMYK?


thanks

 

[akalaray]

Color Bars

Color Bars

Don't forget Slur Patches! Most patches don't have to repeat More then twice (overprints) make sure you give the pressmen what they want and need, like solids to measure density

 

[Visualaid]

re

re

Don't forget Slur Patches! Most patches don't have to repeat More then twice (overprints) make sure you give the pressmen what they want and need, like solids to measure density

what are slur patches?
the color bars i created were out of indesign print dialogue box, made into pdf, opened in illustrator, now it's vector, solid, screens...
Pressman viewed my color bars and said that would work great.
Still not sure why the sequence of colors matters...

 

[gordo]

Thanks for the response, Gordon...
however, I do not follow... sorry.
What do you mean it is not optimal?
Why does the sequence matter, and if we are printing on 4 color, can't the tones just simply be CMYK

I'm assuming your press operator has a densitometer to use to measure the patches.
What press operators check, in order of importance according to them:
1) Solid color patches (C,M,Y,K) to check density.
2) Solid color overprints (R,G,B) to check ink trapping.
3) Grey balance patches (3/C - 50% C, 40% M, 40% Y)
4) 50% patches of CMYK to check dot gain

Here's what's what's wrong with your color bar

1) All patches surrounded by a "black" rule (65%CMYK) - serves no function while hiding misregistration issues
2) 50% patches of CMYK to check dot gain are too far away from the solid color patches. This can lead to false measurements
3) No grey balance patches
4) You have a step wedge consisting of patches of equal amounts of CMYK. This provides no useful information.
5) One or two slur targets would be nice but not critical. These tell your press operator if there is slippage that is deforming the dots. Every dot and solid patch in the color bar is effectively a slur target - a dedicated patch just makes it quicker and easier for the press operator to see there's a problem.
Attached is what the target looks like.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "Still not sure why the sequence of colors matters..."
If you mean the sequence of patches in the color bar then it's important that certain ones like solid vs 50% are close together so that they are within the same ink key (ink lay down) zone.
If you mean the sequence on inks being laid down on press - then that will be different than how the 2 color press was used. On a four color press the typical ink sequence is K, C, M, Y. (On a 2 color press the typical sequence is: C, M, K, Y)

best, gordon p

 

[KimSaks]

Gordo is right with everything he said but I have to ask...
What RIP and Platesetter are you using? Doesn't your RIP allow you to add colorbars at the rip or inposition stage?
Have a great day!
Kim Sakowski

KJSAKS Enterprises, Inc
ph... 702-561-5936
e-mail... [email protected]

 

[Visualaid]

Gordo is right with everything he said but I have to ask...
What RIP and Platesetter are you using? Doesn't your RIP allow you to add colorbars at the rip or inposition stage?
Have a great day!
Kim Sakowski

KJSAKS Enterprises, Inc
ph... 702-561-5936
e-mail... [email protected]

thanks for the responses everyone. this is very helpful.
presstek rip, dpx platesetter, i'm sure it's outdated...
I will check , but we do not use imposition software, I do it all in indesign, but I do not think you can add color bars in the rip software we have.

 

[KimSaks]

I'm fairly familiar with all Presstek RIPs and can't think of one that doesn't provide color bars. Might want to check again.
Though it's just as doable to create your own in an InDesign template but I just find it easier if they are part of a RIP template.
I take it this is your first attempt at 4/C work or just with the 4/C press?
If you need any help feel free to give me a call.
Kim
KJSAKS Enterprises, Inc
Las Vegas, NV
ph... 702-561-5936
e-mail... [email protected]

 

[Visualaid]

I'm fairly familiar with all Presstek RIPs and can't think of one that doesn't provide color bars. Might want to check again.
Though it's just as doable to create your own in an InDesign template but I just find it easier if they are part of a RIP template.
I take it this is your first attempt at 4/C work or just with the 4/C press?
If you need any help feel free to give me a call.
Kim
KJSAKS Enterprises, Inc
Las Vegas, NV
ph... 702-561-5936
e-mail... [email protected]

my bad, its a harlequin rip, and we just checked and there is no option to add color bars, i've always put them straight on my indesign template.
no, i've done 4 color work, and it was always easy as pie. i've been at this particular company for 2 months, everything was printed on 2 color presses. We just acquired this ryobi 4 color press. This rip software we use doesn't separate rasterized files, so I've done it all in pitstop and thrown in indesign for plating. At another job, we rasterized everyone's files, cmyk, sent to rip as postscript and bam it separates. Not sure why this is so different.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

A link to some more info:

Controlling Color "By the Numbers" | Printing Industries of America - Printing.org

International Paper - Color Bars

Digital Test Forms/Color Bars


Some download links:

http://files.idealliance.org/color_characterization/color_control/idealliance control strip 2009.zip

http://files.idealliance.org/G7/FanGraphs/G7_press_bar.zip

http://www.aptec.vtc.edu.hk/idealliance-china/resource_centre/free_resources/11-GRACoL_Bar 3.eps.zip

Images



Regards,

Stephen Marsh

 

[WiseGuy]

No imposition....

No imposition....

thanks for the responses everyone. this is very helpful.
presstek rip, dpx platesetter, i'm sure it's outdated...
I will check , but we do not use imposition software, I do it all in indesign, but I do not think you can add color bars in the rip software we have.

I see you say you're not using an imposition software. I think you'd find a huge time savings if you did. We offer a very low cost PDF imposition solutions called inpO2 (in-poe-two). I'd love to introduce you to our Wizard and inpO2 Basic. You can check out on our web site, and/or drop me an email and I can give you an overview. I'm confident you'll find it much easier than working in InDesign. My email is [email protected].

Michael Reiher
Dynagram
Imposition software - Dynagram

 

[KimSaks]

Sounds like you have it under control but also sounds like you might be looking for a more up to date RIP in the near future???
Again...
If you need any help feel free to give me a call.
Kim
KJSAKS Enterprises, Inc
Las Vegas, NV
ph... 702-561-5936
e-mail... [email protected]

 

[usbox]

what is 4 color printing process

 

[Possumgal]

I can't imagine your Harlequin RIP won't separate files. We run a really ancient one, send jobs to it from various applications, and it'll separate them. As to color bars, I'm not sure, it's been a few years since I used that feature, but the color bars can be produced from any of the major applications.

 

[Visualaid]

I can't imagine your Harlequin RIP won't separate files. We run a really ancient one, send jobs to it from various applications, and it'll separate them. As to color bars, I'm not sure, it's been a few years since I used that feature, but the color bars can be produced from any of the major applications.

yeah, if you read the beginning few posts or so, that's where i created color bar from.
the harlequin rip will show them separate if i've already separated everything in pitstop.

but in the past, i've been able to send a flattened postscript file to the rip and it separates everything. this was at a different company with high dollar equipment.