solids cracking after creasing /folding

[vaithi47]

can anybody give some tips to avoid cracking of solids ptinted on the sheet when a)the sheet is folded on a folding machine b)when you do creasing/scoring on a machine and hand fold

 

[jotterpinky]

Anything you plan on folding that has been printed digitally on coated paper should be creased prior to folding. We've noticed however that lighter weight stocks like 80# gloss text will not hold a crease very well so most fold jobs are done on 100# text. After creasing we run it through our regular folder at a slower speed and it looks fantastic.

Ideally one would buy a creaser/folder unit in one like the Morgana Digifold but they are expensive and slow. Their new 5000 unit looks much better for speed.

 

[Craig]

It will take trials on different machines, different paper to come up with the best fit for your needs. Ours happened to be a Baum 20/20 with a set of Ultimate Scores.

 

[ondemandbindery]

Not enough info. If you are creasing prior to handfolding and getting cracking that leads me to believe something is going on with the scoring process. Type of stock, grain direction, type of fold and how you configure your orientation with the folding plates makes a difference. Give more details and you will get much more input.

 

[vaithi47]

thanks everybody.we do crease before hand folding or machine folding.when machine folding we adjust the roller pressure ,speed etc and get a neat folding.the problem is when we have to fold 200gsm and above which are hand folded.the cracking is more against the grain although there is cracking along the grain folding also.

 

[Keith]

What brand of paper are you using? I just tested this out recently as I don't do a lot of folded products. A customer of mine was really concerned about cracking and wanted his 100lb gloss text brochures scored. Using Endurance Digital I scored with the grain and it cracked very bad. So I got a few sheets of Futura Digital Gloss and Mohawk 50/10, scored them AGAINST the grain and they folded BEAUTIFULLY! This was a case of learning things the hard way. The Futura and Mohawk are more expensive than the Endurance for a very good reason.

I now have a carton of each on my floor and no longer stock the Endurance.

 

[ondemandbindery]

thanks everybody.we do crease before hand folding or machine folding.when machine folding we adjust the roller pressure ,speed etc and get a neat folding.the problem is when we have to fold 200gsm and above which are hand folded.the cracking is more against the grain although there is cracking along the grain folding also.

Give me a product scenario. What is your scoring system currently and type of folder and folding orientation and include plate configuration?

 

[steven574]

Creasing/Folding

Creasing/Folding

I have noticed that creasing 12x18 #100 Finch Opaque Digital even at the highest setting, there is still a little cracking. How bad is the cracking? Can you try another grain direction?

Steve
Soutbury Printing Centre
Southbury, CT

203-264-0102

 

[Steve_S]

Scoring

Scoring

We use a Duplo DC-645 to score both offset and digital. Grain pretty much does not matter with ours - score it, fold it, sell it. The only time we get some cracks, which was mentioned above, is on lighter gloss texts - 70 & 80. If you are roll scoring your digital work on cover weight, it is going to crack. The Morgana products work well also, however, we do a lot of BC's so we went Duplo with the BC slit module.

 

[jzambole]

can anybody give some tips to avoid cracking of solids ptinted on the sheet when a)the sheet is folded on a folding machine b)when you do creasing/scoring on a machine and hand fold

If you have a folder do not invest in offline equipment. We have the Tri - Creaser product to eliminate fiber cracking. You can score with or against the grain it will make no difference with our product. You can score stocks that are 85 gsm to 350 gsm with no trouble. We also have creasing ribs available for UV coated stocks that are special creasing ribs. You can visit the following link to see them in action @ PRODUCT VIDEOS / Ph: (800).656.7766 x 34

They install on the exit shaft of your folder, and will crease 99% of all stocks without fiber cracking. There are other versions out there, but none are as effective as the Tri - Creaser.

Good luck, & we hope to hear from you.

 

[Craig]

IThere are other versions out there, but none are as effective as the Tri - Creaser.

Typical salesman , may have sold cars or siding before the tricreaser???

 

[ondemandbindery]

If you have a folder do not invest in offline equipment. We have the Tri - Creaser product to eliminate fiber cracking. You can score with or against the grain it will make no difference with our product. You can score stocks that are 85 gsm to 350 gsm with no trouble. We also have creasing ribs available for UV coated stocks that are special creasing ribs. You can visit the following link to see them in action @ PRODUCT VIDEOS / Ph: (800).656.7766 x 34

They install on the exit shaft of your folder, and will crease 99% of all stocks without fiber cracking. There are other versions out there, but none are as effective as the Tri - Creaser.

Good luck, & we hope to hear from you.

I always wondered when a vacuum cleaner salesman would finally show up when someone post about creasing problems. This forum is about helping people, not selling lemonade at your corner stand. But if you feel your creasing unit is god's gift to the Printing Industry, let people try it for 3 months no risk before getting paid. If you have that much confidence, back it up..................

 

[jzambole]

Our guarantee is this, no payment needs to be made for thirty days. If after 30 days you like the product, you simply pay for it, but at anytime it does not perform as we advertise, we offer a full refund for the purchase price!!!! I guess you invented this forum, right?? It seems to be a place to help others, it seems to be a place to express opinions, and there are often salesman, service guys replying posts to help, and that's all I am doing. I am not in anyway a vaccum salesman, nor a car salesman as you and Craig say. The company I work for has been around since 1917, we have never been taught to be car saleman, can't stand them!!!!! We are full service company who happens to be the national dealer for Technifold USA and that product line. That's it!!!! Since it was introduced to me, I have never seen a product sell so much with no returns or complaints becuase of poor performance and quality is all.

Thanks for the kind words anyway, hope you have a wonderful day.

 

[ondemandbindery]

Our guarantee is this, no payment needs to be made for thirty days. If after 30 days you like the product, you simply pay for it, but at anytime it does not perform as we advertise, we offer a full refund for the purchase price!!!! I guess you invented this forum, right?? It seems to be a place to help others, it seems to be a place to express opinions, and there are often salesman, service guys replying posts to help, and that's all I am doing. I am not in anyway a vaccum salesman, nor a car salesman as you and Craig say. The company I work for has been around since 1917, we have never been taught to be car saleman, can't stand them!!!!! We are full service company who happens to be the national dealer for Technifold USA and that product line. That's it!!!! Since it was introduced to me, I have never seen a product sell so much with no returns or complaints becuase of poor performance and quality is all.

Thanks for the kind words anyway, hope you have a wonderful day.

No I didn't invent this forum. But the internet, I own it............. Actually you are a vacuum cleaner salesman and let me explain to you why. Where exactly have you put any information on here trying to troubleshoot his exact problem? Where have you posted how exactly your product is going to methodically create perfection for his creasing delima 99% of the time. How do you know this is an actual creasing problem? There are so many factors than can revolve around a problem like this. What would be funny is if he was or has used your product and it still getting the same result. Until there is more information, how can you automatically assume Technifold fixes it all? You sir, EPIC fail.

Have a wonderful day yourself!

 

[jzambole]

I always wondered when a vacuum cleaner salesman would finally show up when someone post about creasing problems. This forum is about helping people, not selling lemonade at your corner stand. But if you feel your creasing unit is god's gift to the Printing Industry, let people try it for 3 months no risk before getting paid. If you have that much confidence, back it up..................

I will give you that, it is definatley something to consider, there maybe another issue for sure. You are 100% right in what you say. You also know your industry very well, and have been around a long time. So I will give you that, but on the other hand, written words are hard to figure ones expression's I am only offering in opinion and a possbility on how I can help as others offer there's, it is all of our opinions that count man. Put them altogther and someone is bound to find the answer there looking for. Take care.

 

[Steve_S]

Take your personal sparring offline folks - we're just giving this person tips on helping with cracked folds.

And FYI to @jzambole - the strong reaction you got is because printers have been snake-bitten for years with promises of rotary scoring devices that cannot provide a crack-proof fold. It isn't personal, so don't get your feelings hurt about it.

 

[ondemandbindery]

Take your personal sparring offline folks - we're just giving this person tips on helping with cracked folds.

And FYI to @jzambole - the strong reaction you got is because printers have been snake-bitten for years with promises of rotary scoring devices that cannot provide a crack-proof fold. It isn't personal, so don't get your feelings hurt about it.

I hear ya there. That is what I have liked about the Finishing section. They have plenty of sparring in the Digital threads.......... But yes, we are here (I know I am) to help out others in the industry. Nuff said.

 

[jzambole]

Take your personal sparring offline folks - we're just giving this person tips on helping with cracked folds.

And FYI to @jzambole - the strong reaction you got is because printers have been snake-bitten for years with promises of rotary scoring devices that cannot provide a crack-proof fold. It isn't personal, so don't get your feelings hurt about it.

Thanks for input.

 

[lfelton]

if you have a morgana machine (we have the autocreaser) then its worth knowing that you can also get a "narrow" die set as well as the standard one that they all come with. We got this option and it does work better on lighter paper. Hope that helps.

 

[apalko]

Alternate folding setup

Alternate folding setup

One method to avoid cracking on digital or any kind of especially sensitive stocks after scoring: use the lower fold plates. An example is the best way to illustrate. Most folder operators are trained to use fold plate #1 when folding a 4 pager. All well and good for text stock, but with cover stocks you are adding unnecessary pressure to the folded piece after it has been folded in plate 1.

Instead, use fold plate #4. Set fold roller calipers 1-4 with one sheet and caliper 5 with 3 sheets instead of 2 (the 'right' way)...remember, fold rollers drive the sheet, they don't pull the sheet. My rule of thumb is if you can fold the scored sheet by hand and it looks OK, you can almost always get it through the folder looking pretty good. Yes, there will be exceptions, and you may need to finesse the machine a bit.

In my experience most operators resist this suggestion....I don't know, maybe they don't want to bend over any lower than they have to. It is however an extremely effective technique that works equally well on 6pp type folds as well. The idea is to do the actual folding as late as possible in the fold rollers, minimizing the pressure being put on the score once it's folded.