Standard makeready sheets

[trever9]

What is everyone using as a standard for makeready sheets on sheetfed press. Mainly for 40 inch press with coater. How many waste sheets do you allow?

 

[printerpete]

depends on how difficult the job is and how Accurate the first sheet has to be, if its a standard 'easy' 4/4 leaflet 100 sheets would probably Suffice until you get onto Sellable Seets as quality doesnt have to be bob on, but if its a difficult Folder or something it could take anything upto 500 sheets or more because each sheet has to match and corporate colours have to be matched

 

[gordo]

It also depends on whether the press operator is eye-balling the plates to set the ink keys or using an ink key preset system.

best, gordon p

 

[Ozkan Hangisi]

This is very popular subject for machine providers for several years. To decrease makeready sheets CIP3 data is a must and it must be calibrated regularly. Also preinking values must be defined while passing from a job to another or just starting with a completely clean machine. I scanned with Image Control device to check print result and fiftieth sheet hit the aimed densite values nearly on all zones after CIP3 calibration. (Machine was washed before print). I heard there are better results. The problem CIP3 data and calibration curve are always consist but machine and working conditions are changing by the time. If fast make ready with very few sheet is important for company, Self CIP3 calibrating system (software options and measuring device for ink zone control) should be obtained.

 

[GazKL440]

According to my production manager (bindery tradesman!!) one pull should suffice

 

[Weaver]

Printer ,Gordo and ozkan are right one the money .This is a debate that I always hear from pressman and management. Makereadies for a standard 40 inch press will depend but not limited to: age of press and if its in good shape or not,skill of the operator,difficulty of the job itself, if your going by eye or image control , even if your pulling from prepress everything must be correct. How picky the customer is. When I say this some will disagree but I think you need a minimum of 150 sheets per color to ensure you have good quality but if your not worried about quality then its your decision.

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

150 sheets per colour is our target. We use CIP3 and closed loop ink density control. Process colours are quick to get to colour, Special colours (we have over 2000) dont react as predictable depending on the ink coverages.

 

[turbotom1052]

with accurate prepress data im thinking that 250 to 300 sheets will get the average 6/c and coat job up to pretty good color and capable of saleable sheets. Of course this assumes that the pressman is giving the final okee dokey and doesnt have to please another set of eyes. If a customer is at press for the ok id allow an addtional 200 sheets or have a customer willing to flip the counter on early and fine tune during the run.

 

[sallak]

for a full color job on GTO52 single color 100 sheets are enough
depends on the pressman's experinece too, if CTP plates used or films

 

[herbert]

Just for your info

Just for your info

We use 400 sheets per side, but again all down to press and operator. We basically use 400 sheets per makeready. Then we have between 1-2% run overs. Then 100 sheets per finishing operation.

 

[Ultimate]

Software to get Makeready "right on the money"

Software to get Makeready "right on the money"

To reduce wastes while doing makeready and to cut on time required to accomplish this task, we have a solution called InkReady. At only $995., it will allow you to read PDF, TIFF, PS files/plates and output ink key settings on a report sheet (to set older presses / non CIP3 presses), or a CIP3 PPF file for your console. You can configure several presses and automated the process through hot folders.

We offer a FREE 5 days version so you can do a couple test runs.
If you wat to evaluate it, contact me directly.

Ray Duval
Ultimate Technographics
Loading...

raymond (at) imposition.com

 

[DotBox]

We generally get 1000 sheets over the exact run size and are typically expected to deliver at least 500 of those as salable "overs" to the bindery. We get about 1000 additional sheets on runs over 50K, and they usually order us a total of 5000 extras for any runs over 100K. We typically don't need anywhere near that many extras on press; it is more to ensure that the bindery has enough no matter what, so that we don't have to put the job back on later and run more. Every time we have tried to cut down on these amounts, we have eventually run into problems and had to rerun additional sheets to make final count. In our shop, that sort of thing really kills production, so we avoid it like the plague. We usually end up with lots of completely finished extras, which we either ship if possible, or box and save on the shelf for a year.

 

[Ti7]

We are a high quality sheetfed shop that have gotten our Pressman down to 80 sheets per unit.

 

[GazKL440]

We are a high quality sheetfed shop that have gotten our Pressman down to 80 sheets per unit.

So, for example on a 10 color you allow 800 make ready sheets? I would consider that excessive on a late model fully auto press. Generally, (our presses are not auto, semi auto plate loading only, and manual profiling) we take one pull for rego, and 2 run downs of 100 sheets to ensure profile is correct and stable. More sheets are sometimes required if you have to chase down marking etc, so hopefully a few runners are on hand.

This is purely job related, some jobs we start running at slow speed and can pretty much flick on the counter after 100 sheets and fine tune as you run.

Edit: there is also an old rule that applies; the more overs you have = less problems encountered

 

[Ti7]

Not per physical units, I meant per printing unit. If it were a 10 color job, then yes 800 sheets for the make ready. If it were a 6 color job then 480 sheets and so on.

 

[printerpete]

So, for example on a 10 color you allow 800 make ready sheets? I would consider that excessive on a late model fully auto press. Generally, (our presses are not auto, semi auto plate loading only, and manual profiling) we take one pull for rego, and 2 run downs of 100 sheets to ensure profile is correct and stable. More sheets are sometimes required if you have to chase down marking etc, so hopefully a few runners are on hand.

This is purely job related, some jobs we start running at slow speed and can pretty much flick on the counter after 100 sheets and fine tune as you run.

Edit: there is also an old rule that applies; the more overs you have = less problems encountered

Amen To that Brother. Bloody hell it sounds like we work in the same Factory lol

 

[turbotom1052]

I think this is a good opportunity to clear up a common misconception that many production people and estimators have about the amount of makeready sheets needed for accurate color on jobs. Ive noticed a prevaling thought amongst production people that have them thinking that the extra mr sheets are needed for the heavy coverage jobs, and that the very light coverage jobs should be a breeze because theres not much to print, therefore the job is somehow easier and requires less sheets to come up to color. This in my opinion is totally false!!! I beleive that the very light coverage jobs are the ones that require more sheets to get color on.
The less ink takeoff you have on a form, the more sheets are required to initiate the last change you made to the fountain. It all has to do with the storage capacity of your roller train. Heavy coverage forms will respond quickly to a change requiring less sheets to be run. That big full coverage poster job that many feel make the job more difficult in actuality make it easier to bring up to color requiring fewer sheets.
Also there is a misconception that if you print half the color (ie that simple 2 color job) then you dont need to allow as many sheets to come up to color. Another falsehood!!! the press responds to the input thats given to it from the pressman. The fountains on each individual unit do not know or care how many other units are involved. The amount of sheets required to initiate the changes are not dependant on how many colors are being printed. It has much more to do with the skill of the guy making the fountain changes than it has to do with how many colors are being laid down.
One of the things that can lessen the amount of sheets needed to come up to color is ACCURATE sheeting off, and tapping on of ink. This will give the roller train a little bit of a headstart in acheiving balance after the last adjustment is made. It will also add to the time of a mr especially on modern presses where access to your rollers are very limited due to increased levels of safety.
I mention all this because in a companies quest to reduce cost often the first place to look is to allow less paper for a job. What many dont realize is that finding color balance on a particular form can not always be held to a formula if your a commercial printer doing a variety of work. The process requires what it requires for any given form and wishful thinking doesnt play into the equation.
If management forces the pressroom to make due with less it will show in the form of a reduction in print quality. You will be in effect forcing the pressman to flip on that counter a bit earlier. If the requirements of your customers are such that they are willing to accept "pleasing" color then its one thing, but if your dealing with fussy clients pleasing color just isnt good enough. When you consider the lessining quantities of sheetfed pressruns the issue of flipping on the counter a little early becomes greater as its harder to allow a couple hundred of them "off color" sheets to get lost in the job.
Managements best chances to cut down on mr sheets is to have late model, well maintained equiptment manned by experienced press crews, along with a willingness to understand that there is going to be that occasional job that will require more than what was originally figured.
Im all for doing my part to cut down on waste. And will always look to the bottom line. My suggestion would be to allow for a little more paper when it comes to the above mentioned jobs rather than less paper and to be sure you have hired the kind of guys that will put the stock they dont need back into inventory.

 

[herbert]

I agree with turbo tom