Still using manual trapping?

[Phish]

Hi all,

Many thanks for looking at my post firstly, i hope i can gather enough information to work out my problem.

As the title says, i work in a pre press department that has to do trapping manually, not easy in today's world or print, basically i am looking for a solution to this and was wondering if anyone out there has any advice on what trapping programs there are?

Money is tight, like it mainly is in todays world, looking around the internet i have found a trapping add-on to our RTI rip kit that costs around £1500, alot for just a plug in plus would it be able to deal with trapping vectors aswell as pixels?

I recently found out we have Enfocus FullSwitch, we do not use it as we have no idea of how to use it due to the person that brought it left before setting it up so no one has any idea of how it works. I have tried to figure it out and it looks more complicated than anything i have seen before.

I work for a POS screen printers in england and we are struggling to figure out whats best for us so i thought i would ask here for any idea's?

If you require any more information, please ask.

Many thanks

Phil.

 

[Phish]

Hi all,

Just incase anyone out there has experienced similar problems, i found this page online which may help.

Illustrator, Gradient strokes on gradients

Phil.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Phil, what files do you work with?

Native apps: which?
PostScript to your RIP: composite or pre-separated?
PDF: Acrbat Pro? Do you RIP PDF files?

Would you prefer to trap before or at the RIP?

Budget?

You will probably find that your RIP trapping solution is the cheapest option!


Stephen Marsh

 

[ajr]

Work out how long it takes you to trap a file, what does this cost you every day? The plug-in for your RIP will pay for itself in no time. In RIP Trapping is very good nowadays, once set you wont have to think about it again!
AjR

 

[rich apollo]

Phish,
Switch is an automation tool, and, yes, it can be pretty complex to set up. It does not perform trapping on it's own. Rather, Switch allows you to move files around and make calls on various software packages.

Heidelberg has a very nice plug-in (PDF Toolbox) for Acrobat that will perform trapping and color management functions. I don't know how it will fit into your budget, but it's on the less expensive end of auto-trapping software.

 

[Phish]

Phil, what files do you work with?

Native apps: which?
PostScript to your RIP: composite or pre-separated?
PDF: Acrbat Pro? Do you RIP PDF files?

Would you prefer to trap before or at the RIP?

Budget?

You will probably find that your RIP trapping solution is the cheapest option!


Stephen Marsh

Stephen,

The answers to your questions (I will thank everyone however i am in a bit of a rush as working at the moment, lol.

Native apps: which? - We use Illustrator mainly however we can use photoshop and indesign also, most of the work we receive is in PDF form and open them up in illustrator.

PostScript to your RIP: composite or pre-separated? - We always pre separate our PDFs colourwise and then place into a hotfolder which is located on the rip computer.

PDF: Acrbat Pro? Do you RIP PDF files? - Think i have already answered that one above, lol.

Would you prefer to trap before or at the RIP? - Not bothered as long as the trapping is effective and works well with our RIP.

Budget? - No idea as thats the accounts division, i try and find the most value for money and suggest these to the powers that be!!!!

You will probably find that your RIP trapping solution is the cheapest option! - Probably at the moment as they are not actually paying out for a Trapping software, just my wages.

Hope that helps?

Phil.

 

[zombie]

If you pre separate (monochrome instead of CMYK separation), you cannot use InRip Trapping.

 

[Bill W]

We use Prinergy, which of course is quite expense. I only mention that because I am very impress with the trapping plugins that Esko offers for Illustrator. Here are the links for demo versions for their two trapping plugin offerings:

Instant Trapper for Adobe Illustrator ® - Interactive trapping - Esko
Power Trapper Adobe Illustrator ® - Auto trapping technology - Esko - Esko

I have tried the demo version of power trapper and if looking for a one station solution for packaging work would highly recommend it.

 

[zevrix]

There's a simple and dirty solution, which may sounds like heresy - however we used it successfully and never had a single complaint:

Open the file in Photoshop and apply the Trap command.


We mostly used it with InDesign files: save as EPS > rasterize in Photoshop > trap


There's more to this however, as it excludes text.

So we imported the rasterized trapped image back to InDesign replacing the original graphics and leaving text intact. The trapped image easily fell precisely in place as it retained the document dimensions.

There were probably other details and exceptions which I don't recall exactly by now.

It maybe tricky in the beginning, but once you master this workflow it's fast and easy.

Our final destination was PDF so we didn't have access to any in-RIP trapping.

 

[Phish]

Hi all,

Many thanks for all your input, what a lovely group of people, i really appreciate everyones input on this subject as it has given me plenty to think about., i will reply now to all your posts hopefully so sorry if i seem to take up so much space on this matter.

Phil.

 

[Phish]

If you pre separate (monochrome instead of CMYK separation), you cannot use InRip Trapping.

I never knew that Zombie, in that case i better not look into the avenue of getting a InRip trapping application or tool then.

Phil.

 

[Phish]

Phish,
Switch is an automation tool, and, yes, it can be pretty complex to set up. It does not perform trapping on it's own. Rather, Switch allows you to move files around and make calls on various software packages.

Heidelberg has a very nice plug-in (PDF Toolbox) for Acrobat that will perform trapping and color management functions. I don't know how it will fit into your budget, but it's on the less expensive end of auto-trapping software.

Many thanks Rich Apollo,

You are right in that it is pretty complex, i am sure if you are shown a few times etc from a well trained operator, it is something that can be used as long as you have all the right software or applications to use with it?

Will look into the Heidelberg plug-in (PDF Toolbox) however i have a feeling it will not come cheap, great post though.

Phil.

 

[Phish]

We use Prinergy, which of course is quite expense. I only mention that because I am very impress with the trapping plugins that Esko offers for Illustrator. Here are the links for demo versions for their two trapping plugin offerings:

Instant Trapper for Adobe Illustrator ® - Interactive trapping - Esko
Power Trapper Adobe Illustrator ® - Auto trapping technology - Esko - Esko

I have tried the demo version of power trapper and if looking for a one station solution for packaging work would highly recommend it.

Many thanks Bill,

I am liking the look of the Power Trapper i have to say, this would save so much time considering we use illustrator so much, it seems very flexible and editable, manual trapping can take so long and this seems to do it in seconds.

Have you ever used it? How difficult is it to set up? What is the support like to know what options/settings to use?

Phil.

 

[Phish]

There's a simple and dirty solution, which may sounds like heresy - however we used it successfully and never had a single complaint:

Open the file in Photoshop and apply the Trap command.


We mostly used it with InDesign files: save as EPS > rasterize in Photoshop > trap


There's more to this however, as it excludes text.

So we imported the rasterized trapped image back to InDesign replacing the original graphics and leaving text intact. The trapped image easily fell precisely in place as it retained the document dimensions.

There were probably other details and exceptions which I don't recall exactly by now.

It maybe tricky in the beginning, but once you master this workflow it's fast and easy.

Our final destination was PDF so we didn't have access to any in-RIP trapping.

Zevrix,

Funny you should mention this technique as it is something i have just figured out after finding the trapping option within Photoshop, i take it you have used this quite alot then? I have not used this technique much however it is definitely something i am working with, as we use vector and rasterized images, i just hope it does not turn the vectored images too much into a pixelated mess. Due to use printing in 65DPI (screen print) i am wondering if this will effect the end results too much? I suppose i could just manually trap these vectored images in illustrator by hand and let photoshop trap the rasterized images mind but that seems like it is not fulfilling what i am looking for.

Saying that mind, good idea non the less.

Phil.

 

[Bill W]

Greetings Phil,

As I mentioned I "played" with the demo version. I started in this business in 1981 and learned traditional film stripping (trapping, imposition, etc). In 1991 I converted to digital using Illustrator 3 to "hand trap" files digitally. I hand trapped until we purchased Prinergy in 2004. I think if you can hand trap you will have no problem using the menus in Esko Powertrapper. I suggest you try the demo - I think you will be pleased with use and results. By the way I do not work for Esko. This recommendation is solely personal.

 

[PDL]

Just a quick mention if you do download the trial Esko PowerTrapper plugin for Illustrator. After you install you will find the online help and manuals by going to the Illustrator Help Menu/Esko/Esko Help. They will guide you through the tools, trap settings, etc..

 

[Phish]

Thanks again,

Personal recommendations from people who do the same job or interest as yourself that also comes across as having the experience in knowing what they are talking about is always appreciated Bill. My journey in the digital era in pre press has been an interesting one. I had nothing to do with illustrator really before 9 months ago other than to alter or repair eps's etc when using page layout software such as Quark xpress or InDesign. Prinergy is a great workflow, adding trap and generating your PDFs, however i have to say i am really enjoying learning all these new ways of dealing with the problems of making something print properly or correct.

I just may download the demo, try it out and see how it goes, funny how you mentioned you do not work for esko then the next post is by someone called eskopdl who looks simular lol.

Maybe this program with help me alot, hoping it traps tiffs etc aswell as vectors and gradients.

Thanks again.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

billw - it sounds like you are using the default automated trapping in Prinergy. With the optional addition of the "PDF Trap Editor" plug-in for Acrobat Pro you can have manual edits to the automated trapping provided by Prinergy.


Stephen Marsh

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Stephen,

The answers to your questions (I will thank everyone however i am in a bit of a rush as working at the moment, lol.

Native apps: which? - We use Illustrator mainly however we can use photoshop and indesign also, most of the work we receive is in PDF form and open them up in illustrator.

You will likely know the perils of opening PDF files in Illustrator, if Illustrator did not create the PDF. Illustrator is not designed as a general purpose PDF editing tool.

Be that as it may, have you explored the Illustrator effect/pathfinder/trap "live effect"??? This command has basic trapping intelligence and is more productive than manually applying overprinting strokes in a separate trap layer. Group the objects that require trapping before running the trap effect. If you need to manually tweak or edit the traps over and above the live setting work on a copy of the original document and then use the object/expand appearance command.

http://help.adobe.com/en_US/illustrator/cs/using/WS714a382cdf7d304e7e07d0100196cbc5f-6490a.html

InDesign has a trapping engine built into it as well, however this requires printing.

Photoshop, depends on the image content and construction/build on whether trapping is needed or not (not for photos, more for text and logo type content that is not vector).

Probably at the moment as they are not actually paying out for a Trapping software, just my wages.

As AJR said, it is easy enough to prove the return on investment on the in-RIP trapping option vs. the lack of productivity for you to do this manually. The cost is hidden in your wages at the moment. But what if you could show that the department could handle X number more jobs each day they did not have to manually trap? If budget is an issue, the in-RIP option would appear to offer the best value for money.


Stephen Marsh

 

[Bill W]

Stephen - we do use the PDF Trap Editor plug in.

Prinergy has certainly made our production jobs process faster with its trapping and imposition solution in comparison to "hand trapping". Like everything, this faster processing comes at a cost.

I still feel comparing Prinergy to Esko trapping Illustrator plug ins that the bang for the buck is on the Esko side. Please do not take this as my endorsement for all Esko work flow and products. I have challenges with all the, what used to be call, "proprietary" solutions. One can still create a very adequate trapping / imposition workflow using a few plugins to Illustrator and actions. However, being a backyard workflow mechanic has it challenges.

One still needs a RIP to present trapped / imposed files to the output device. Can one still purchase a RIP only solution, one without trapping, imposition?