The case against the EPS file.

[Tim-Ellis]

Hello Folks,

I need your help. The lads at my sister company still insist on using .EPS files for vector artwork. They have lots of historic files and they are struggling to let go and move on. Everything they process ends up as a PDF/VT 1.0 anyway.

... but .... I need more ammo than, “everyone else is using PDF.”

What am I missing?

* It is a dead file format. No more updates

* Bloated file size if the EPS is generated by Adobe Illustrator.

* Potential Font issues.

* Potential issues with Live Transparency.

All contributions welcome!

 

[MacTwidget]

With .eps files you need to make sure that the Document Raster Effect settings are at least 300dpi otherwise vignettes and drop shadows will band. A lot of designers are not aware of this.

 

[Dov Isaacs]

Forget about the “dead file format” argument. That only makes them dig in their heels even more!

Here are the major issues, many of which you already have:

(1) EPS doesn't support ICC Color Management. Everything is either DeviceCMYK, DeviceGray, or DeviceRGB.

(2) EPS doesn't support live transparency. All content with live transparency, including clipped images, must be flattened potentially causing text and vector objects involved with transparency to be rasterized at some resolution which probably won't match the resolution of your output device (which you probably know at the time of content creation anyway). If text and vector overlap with transparency, text may be converted to outlines. Text in the resultant PDF will not be fully searchable or be able to be “touched-up” due to this flattening process. And the text won't render at highest quality!

(3) The results of (1) and (2) are device resolution and color space dependent files with the possibility of terrible artifacts when either displaying or printing. There is no recovery from this!

(4) PDF is much more compact and compressed than EPS, but with potentially higher fidelity.

(5) There are no good tools for displaying EPS. PDF is ubiquitous for display and print. Adobe Reader is free!

Note however, that if one is generating PDF for any type of content, a parallel file should be maintained in the file's native format. In other words, if a vector diagram is created in Illustrator, save the file as an Illustrator file and save a copy as a PDF/X-4 file!

- Dov

 

[aqazi81]

Does same apply for the PS files too?
We sell a CTP brand and also provide a RIP free for one year, so we have to train new customers and as we are told to tell the customer that the best format to use is PDF, the problem starts where some customers still using old freehand files or corel draw files, which end up sometimes in bad processing of the files through RIP.

The problem is that the prepress operators here are afraid of converting old free hand files to PDF. Can you give some tips on how to convert these files to PDF so the original Artwork doesn't change in final output?

 

[Danny Whitehead]

The problem is that the prepress operators here are afraid of converting old free hand files to PDF. Can you give some tips on how to convert these files to PDF so the original Artwork doesn't change in final output?

If you just want PDF to send to the RIP (rather than a conversion that you'll be able to edit in future), then it's the old PostScript-Distiller dance. We've a decade or so's worth of legacy FH files in our archive, but luckily I've not had to deal with one for a year or two*.

But yeah, for modern software that can export/save a reliable PDF, and RIPs that can reliably process them, I'd say PS is obsolete.

*Sod's Law, an old client will ring today for an amended version of a form we last printed in 2002!

 

[Danny Whitehead]

I'd say the lack of support for transparency is the strongest case against EPS. Maybe you have a real job that you can use to demonstrate the difference between PDF and EPS? Something with both transparency and spot colours would be ideal - for instance an image that has been masked in Photoshop and placed onto a solid spot background in ID or AI. The way those are flattened, using a spot colour image on top of the original image and set to overprint, can be particularly troublesome downstream.

 

[Repro_Pro]

As a side comment:
I know it is not common, certainly not at this time and age, but simply writing PS/EPS files using a simple Text Editor to produce precise graphics and text has great technical merits.
Using Postscript as a programming language provide for producing clean, precise graphic objects and making controlled, precise manipulations on these objects.
Sometimes WYSIWYG is not quite that!

 

[Dov Isaacs]

As a side comment:
I know it is not common, certainly not at this time and age, but simply writing PS/EPS files using a simple Text Editor to produce precise graphics and text has great technical merits.
Using Postscript as a programming language provide for producing clean, precise graphic objects and making controlled, precise manipulations on these objects.
Sometimes WYSIWYG is not quite that!

Do you know why Adobe Illustrator was created in the first place?

John Warnock, the founder of Adobe, was tired of assisting his graphic artist wife by manually producing PostScript files for her designs. Once Illustrator was implemented, he never went back to hand coding PostScript for graphics!

Yes, you can product “clean, precise graphic objects” by hand-coding PostScript, but you don't have ICC color management, you don't have transparency, you are producing content that mere-mortals (not computer nerds) can edit and repurpose, you are using an awkward, reverse Polish programming language, and you are making terribly inefficient use of your time. Other than that, PostScript is really great.

- Dov

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

Other than that, PostScript is really great.

Great! Illustrator was my next program to learn after InDesign, but now I see I should abandon that effort in favor of learning PostScript.

 

[Schnitzel]

you are using an awkward, reverse Polish programming language, and you are making terribly inefficient use of your time. Other than that, PostScript is really great.

On rare occasions, I write a Python script that generates a PostScript file to automate some complex task (e.g. a special swatch book or patch layout). This method is actually really quick and efficient for me due to its simplicity - no special libraries or software, just a simple text file, then throw it in Distiller. Plus, for unknown reasons, I get some perverse joy out of writing in this horrible language.

When PostScript isn't sadistically painful, it really is great.

 

[Repro_Pro]

... you are making terribly inefficient use of your time.

Sorry Dov, I beg to differ with this assertion.
In my experience, there are cases when typing a few lines of Postscript is actually the best and shortest route to get a job done efficiently.
Writing Postscript allows precise, short, direct instructions to the rip without unnecessary complexities.
What may be "sadistically painfull" (but worthwhile because it's "really quick and efficient") for Shnitzel, may be simple and straightforward to others.
I know, most Graphic Designers may not want to hear anything that includes the word "programming", but that may not be the case for more technically inclined individuals.
My point is that the mere knowledge of the possibility of typing a simple program in Postscript to produce a graphic object became rare.
%!PS Let EPS live! showpage

 

[KarenFPL]

I use Illustrator. Should I be place the .ai file or the PDF version in InDesign? Thank you.

 

[Marc.Ram]

Great! Illustrator was my next program to learn after InDesign, but now I see I should abandon that effort in favor of learning PostScript.

Unless you are into programming and have a lot of time to learn the intricacies of writing postscript programs, I would suggest that you stick to using tools like Illustrator and Indesign that give you a graphic interface to get what you want done. Raw postscript is extremely powerful but also has an extremely steep learning curve.

If you are still interested in learning postscript I would suggest looking at an introductory text such as Thinking in Postscript, There is also the Postscript standard Red book Green book and Blue books published by Addison Wesley, (Long out of print I believe) which are available online in PDF formats, from the Tales from the Green Book link.

https://blogs.adobe.com/CCJKType/2016/12/ehandler.html

If they disappear, send me a PM and I will email to you.

 

[Dov Isaacs]

I use Illustrator. Should I be place the .ai file or the PDF version in InDesign? Thank you.

Use Save as Copy in Illustrator and specify PDF/X-4 as the PDF to create. That is optimal for placement in InDesign.

- Dov

 

[Gregg]

Curious how some are handling placing Photoshop links that contain spot colors. For example, I just sent a book jacket file to the printer in which the Process Cyan and Process Magenta plates are being swapped out with Pantone Neon colors. All of the Photoshop links are set up with the proper Spot channels, but since InDesign does not support the Multichannel color space I am forced to save them as DCS.eps files. Old-school, I know...but it works.

Any other methods that would work?

 

[kyle]

...Any other methods that would work?

You should be able to make them grayscale with spot channels. Add a new empty spot channel, move it to the top, select it, then Image > Mode > Grayscale. You can then save as TIFF.

 

[Gregg]

Kyle, I gave that a shot and got the following error message when trying to place the link in ID. "The files contains at least one spot color than uses an undefined color space."

I've attached a screenshot of my channels for visual reference.

 

[DCurry]

What is the file format of the image? It should work with either PSD or PDF, although it's been a while since I've used a spot channel.

You might try leaving C and M channels (just make them blank), then you are dealing with a CMYK-mode image plus the 2 spot channels.

I'm curious, though - if all the C and M are being swapped for neons, can't you just leave everything as CMYK and tell the print vendor to use the neons instead of C and M at press?

 

[Tim-Ellis]

I'm curious, though - if all the C and M are being swapped for neons, can't you just leave everything as CMYK and tell the print vendor to use the neons instead of C and M at press?

I think that was the original work around they were trying to improve on.

 

[Macmann]

Save it as a tiff and be sure to select the spot color check box-I use it all the time-works like a champ.