the designer /customer KNOWS BEST !!!!!

[Packin'JP]

About 1-2 times a year we run into "corporate america" type clients (is what i like to call them), that use high end design firms, (you know the ones that have all those degrees hanging on the walls), and they (the design firms) start asking questions about our dot gains, and color profiles, and what are our standards, and do we print swop or G7, etc...
And by the way we do profile our equipment to G7. Just don't have a certificate hanging on the wall.

To make a long, boring, played out story short, they want us to supply them our proofers profile so they can make a proof that we would have to match on press.

Every time this comes about, i start to quiver, knowing that i am going to spend countless time color correcting their files to match a proof that they are supplying, approved by a client, and that i than need to match.

Am i missing something here ? I am in prepress for 30 years and why do people need to make things so difficult.
Is there something wrong with my proofer? I do have a nice one. And guess what, its calibrated, TO MY PRESS !!!!

I have the latest and greatest softwares, hardwares, printing presses, Color calibration tools, ect... WTF !!!
And guess what, If you would just have come directly to us, I prob would save you hundreds, if not thousands of dollars by not going to that design "firm" to begin with.

Does anyone else deal with these color nerds and how do you handle it. I can only assume the same way that i do, just say No problem and hopefully get paid in a reasonable amount of time.

and the best part of all this is when i do finally get a file in it hAS A SMALL PIECE OF PROCESS AND MOSTLY COMPOSED OF SPOT COLORS !!!!!!!!

IDK,maybe i am getting too old for this.
Thanks for the vent Planet.

 

[kdw75]

About 1-2 times a year we run into "corporate america" type clients (is what i like to call them), that use high end design firms, (you know the ones that have all those degrees hanging on the walls), and they (the design firms) start asking questions about our dot gains, and color profiles, and what are our standards, and do we print swop or G7, etc...
And by the way we do profile our equipment to G7. Just don't have a certificate hanging on the wall.

To make a long, boring, played out story short, they want us to supply them our proofers profile so they can make a proof that we would have to match on press.

Every time this comes about, i start to quiver, knowing that i am going to spend countless time color correcting their files to match a proof that they are supplying, approved by a client, and that i than need to match.

Am i missing something here ? I am in prepress for 30 years and why do people need to make things so difficult.
Is there something wrong with my proofer? I do have a nice one. And guess what, its calibrated, TO MY PRESS !!!!

I have the latest and greatest softwares, hardwares, printing presses, Color calibration tools, ect... WTF !!!
And guess what, If you would just have come directly to us, I prob would save you hundreds, if not thousands of dollars by not going to that design "firm" to begin with.

Does anyone else deal with these color nerds and how do you handle it. I can only assume the same way that i do, just say No problem and hopefully get paid in a reasonable amount of time.

and the best part of all this is when i do finally get a file in it hAS A SMALL PIECE OF PROCESS AND MOSTLY COMPOSED OF SPOT COLORS !!!!!!!!

IDK,maybe i am getting too old for this.
Thanks for the vent Planet.

Being such a small shop we are thankful that we don't have to deal with such demanding clients, though their money is nice.

We have had a few clients that would bring in something they got printed at another shop and then expect us to make our runs match it, regardless of which is correct. Oh and we had another that would get signs printed in RGB on a 12 color inkjet and then fail to understand why the press didn't have colors that were as vibrant.

 

[kansasquaker]

I have a customer like that. They run a variety of ink jets which are all "G7 certified". My proofer and press are both profiled to Gracol/G7. Not infrequently, we'll be unable to match their proofs. The conversation in my head goes like this:

Me: "Sorry but we can't match your proof, it's too red"
Them: "Well our machines are G7 certified, we have a piece of paper on the wall. So there's something wrong with your press."
Me: "Well, I didn't bother to hit your control strip with my techkon because your HR patch is so freaking pink that I know you're way out of spec with my naked eye."
Them: "What's a control strip"

In real life it goes like this:
Me: "Hey we're having trouble matching your proof, I think the color may be off."
Them: "No, it's right and the customer signed off on it.:
Me: "Ok, I'll see if I can fix it." ***while adding 10pct bump curve to the magenta plate and reoutputting . . .

 

[DCurry]

A few years ago at a previous shop I worked at, we had one of these "color nerds" as a client and we gave him our proofer profile. So, when he supplied his files, he would also supply his own color proof. For the first 2 or 3 jobs we ran our own proof, but each time it was a dead-on match for his proof so after that we just used his proofs. He was able to save money by not paying for our proofs, and we were able to save time on his jobs because we trusted his proofs for color.

To date, he has been the one and only customer I've ever had who knew what he was doing as far as color management goes.

 

[maas]

I moved away a few years ago from asking for or supplying proofs, a contone digital print is at best a close approximation of what a halftone analogue print will look like on press, there are still too many variables not least of which is an over reliance on these proofs be it from calibrated equipment and to delta or not which goes hand in hand with a lack of knowledge how to create a calibrated proof and the limitations these represent, even the Fogra data sets are averages and the variations in whiteness and brightness of most offset paper is not represented by proofing paper

regards
Maas

 

[Packin'JP]

Sweet DCurry.
In theory it should work and you were lucky enough to catch one. In my experience, it never matched our proof. Sometimes close but not DEAD ON. As far as saving money goes, a $100 proof spent for insurance on a 10 or 15 thousand dollar job seems like a no brainer.

mass
I love CT proofs. It's a shame kodak or Fuji couldn't make the technology more affordable. Ink jets suck. But in todays world they seem to be good enough.

 

[Colorblind]

I guess if the printer claims he can print to match a Gracol or SWOP proof and the client supplies it's own certified proof (and understands about the production tolerance), it shouldn't be a problem. We do our own certified proofs in-house. If the customer questions the color match between the press sheet and the proof, we go under the booth and it ends there if it's close enough, we sometimes need to explain the color reproduction variables. If we judge it's really off (it sometimes happens with magazine ads - all of them claim they print to latest SWOP specifications), we use the spectro to justify our claim and usually get a make good. I just made a report where the color in some areas were off by 12 to 14 Delta E compared to the certified proof and absolute colorimetric data of the CMYK values.

 

[Packin'JP]

You make it seem soo easy ColorBlind

Our problem is our clients, (the middleman) who never knows anything about color and never seems to learn anything we try to teach them. They get a proof and tells us we need to make it look exactly like that !!!! As soon as i start with the deltas, and the tolerances, and the board colors, i get the look. They really don't care. THATS WHAT I WANT is what we here.

 

[Colorblind]

You make it seem soo easy ColorBlind

Our problem is our clients, (the middleman) who never knows anything about color and never seems to learn anything we try to teach them. They get a proof and tells us we need to make it look exactly like that !!!! As soon as i start with the deltas, and the tolerances, and the board colors, i get the look. They really don't care. THATS WHAT I WANT is what we here.

I feel your pain, I used to deal with that non-sense years ago.

 

[lynnic]

Packin'JP,
It's like you read my mind! Been there so many times!!