Transparency issues with Creo Prinergy

[[email protected]]

We are having the same issues as a poster on the Adobe section. However, his solutions don't work for us.

We are a graphic design studio that receives Illustrator files from many other studios. Many times these studios use spot colors in their drop-shadows and transparencies. When we make whatever revisions we have to make and send the file out to the printer, they can't rip the file properly-- it all comes out as four-color. So then the file comes back to me and I have to spend a lot of time converting each design (it's always more than one--sometimes up to ten) into photoshop DCS files with their respective drop-shadows, etc. and bringing the image back into Illustrator. Needless to say this is a big pain in the a**. What should be a 15 minute job turns into hours.

The printer is using a Creo Prinergy workflow. I've spent hours on the phone with them trying to make these files work as-is to no avail. PDF files won't rip properly either. If I print to pdf separations, the seps come out perfectly. It doesn't work on their end, though.

There's not much I can do since I am not physically there, but I would like to pass on to the printer any advice anyone might have.

Thank You

 

[Jackie]

My first question to you would be what version of Prinergy are they on? I'm lucky and happen to be in Creo/Kodak's back yard in Burnaby BC and have the latest version of Prinergy Connect. Version 4 and up has two RIPS, the old Adobe CPSI and the new Adobe PDF Print Engine. The new PDF RIP handles transparency quite well and should be able to rip through your spot colour drop shadows just fine. I've had many similar issues until I switched to the new RIP.

Maybe someone from Kodak can weigh in and explain the technology a bit better, but what I can tell you is that it works great.

Hope this helps
Jackie

 

[[email protected]]

Thank you for your reply, Jackie.

I don't know what version they're using but I suspected we weren't the only people with this problem and an update fix would come by soon. I'll let them know to update to version 4 if they haven't already.

Thanks again.

 

[james.bredenhof]

I agree with Jackie -- In general, transparency shouldn't be a problem with Prinergy.

A possibility:
are the files all-CMYK before you send it out? You can verify using Acrobat's Output Preview tool.
You mention edits -- depending on how you do the edits, and what the original PDF file is (Illustrator PDF, or PDF from some other source), Illustrator might very well be converting spot elements to process. This is a common issue with Illustrator as a PDF editing tool -- it tends to wreck a lot, including spot colors on bitmaps, if you're not careful. Therefore, the file might be all-CMYK before it even leaves your shop.

You mention that even creating separated PDF, the seps don't come out correctly on their end. This seems very surprising. If the separated PDF previews accurately on your side in Acrobat, and outputs incorrectly on their side, I'm not sure what the issue might be. Separated output should be pretty bullet-proof WRT separations -- in that scenario, the chance of a spot element getting converted to process is very unlikely. So you're on the right track by taking this approach. You might want to re-verify what the separated file looks like.

Hope that helps.
James

 

[PantherMac]

Sounds like an older version of the software. FWIW I worked at an Artpro shop for many years, and really, really, REALLY loved the way that software handled multi-channel files.

- Mac

 

[powertieke]

are the files all-CMYK before you send it out? You can verify using Acrobat's Output Preview tool.

You didn't actually answer this question, PantherMac...

Did you check the seps in acrobat before sending them to the printer?

 

[PantherMac]

You didn't actually answer this question, PantherMac...

Who, wha? youtalkintome?

- Mac

 

[powertieke]

Who, wha? youtalkintome?

- Mac

YouBetcha!

 

[PantherMac]

YouBetcha!

Mmmmkkk...
But I wasn't the one asking the question? Perhaps [email protected] is who you were directing your question at? I was the monkey shilling Artpro.

- Mac

 

[powertieke]

Mmmmkkk...
But I wasn't the one asking the question? Perhaps [email protected] is who you were directing your question at? I was the monkey shilling Artpro.

- Mac

Whoops, my bad !

So, anyhow :


Originally Posted by james.bredenhof View Post

are the files all-CMYK before you send it out? You can verify using Acrobat's Output Preview tool.

You didn't actually answer this question, [email protected]
...

Did you check the seps in acrobat before sending them to the printer?

 

[Gil-719]

hmmm, no answer? Figures. I work in prepress and design. One of the major problems I get is the spot NOT being spot as the designer or client says, but rather it is process. Of course, 9 times out of 10 they will blame our workflow saying it converts the spot when it shouldn't. But, when they use their output preview in Acrobat, guess what i get? An email from them saying "My Bad..."

 

[powertieke]

hmmm, no answer? Figures. I work in prepress and design. One of the major problems I get is the spot NOT being spot as the designer or client says, but rather it is process. Of course, 9 times out of 10 they will blame our workflow saying it converts the spot when it shouldn't. But, when they use their output preview in Acrobat, guess what i get? An email from them saying "My Bad..."

And everyone wonders why the prepress dude is always so grumpy

If someone supplies a PDF, made it with the correct joboptions and checked the seps/overprint in acrobat, and it comes out wrong (as in "different as in acrobat") at the printers end, they've got the right to complain.

 

[Gil-719]

Yes! Very grumpy! lol...

I agree, if everything is checked and okay to go before it leaves the door, there is a right to complain if things don't go well on the printer's side. A lot of times though, both designers and printer's take on more than they can chew or just rush through things. Designers might not double check the PDF to see if it distilled correctly and prepress "dudes" might not take the time to review correctly.

All I'm saying is we need to eliminate the variables by thoroughly checking, then double checking our files on both the creating and receiving end... ESPECIALLY in this industry where everyone loves passing the buck...

 

[powertieke]

Yes! Very grumpy! lol...

I agree, if everything is checked and okay to go before it leaves the door, there is a right to complain if things don't go well on the printer's side. A lot of times though, both designers and printer's take on more than they can chew or just rush through things. Designers might not double check the PDF to see if it distilled correctly and prepress "dudes" might not take the time to review correctly.

All I'm saying is we need to eliminate the variables by thoroughly checking, then double checking our files on both the creating and receiving end... ESPECIALLY in this industry where everyone loves passing the buck...

Because nobody (especially the printer) is going to get payed for the lost hours, and still the printer seems to be responsible for picking out the mistakes the designers made, and more than likely to be pointed at as the bad guy when he misses a tiny white logo set to overprint...

I agree that both parties should check as thoroughly as possible, but at some point the hours spent repairing the files will need to be payed for. All to often this comes out of the printers pockets...

I agree that it's a complex business, with loads of variables. You pay for expertise in every other business, why don't you want to pay for the watchful eye of the prepress pro at the printers shop. OR if you are so very sure that you are supplying an error free document, go without this extra security, and don't pay extra.

Boy, I'm grumpier than i thought

 

[Gil-719]

Well said... Grumpy person!

 

[flamRon]

I'm attaching a pic of what our settings are in Prinergy 4.0 to handle spot color dropshadows and other spot transparency issues. Hope this helps (and the pic uploads).

GL,
Ron

 

[Keri Callan]

Keri

Keri

Hi there,

We have had similar issues but only when the transparency type of item, in this case a drop shadow, is created in illustrator then saved as an eps.

I haven't tried it, but i wonder if you kept the file as a .ai if it would retain the spot color?

Perhaps if i get a chance i will try some testing.....


Keri