Used digital presses

[SoggyWinter]

I've noticed a few decent digital presses go for very little at used equipment auctions. Most recently
Ricoh 9110 for $8000
Xerox V2100 for $13000
"Just a Printer" channel on Youtube had had success with a used Konica Minolta press and saved quite a bit on clicks.

Are there press vendors that are friendly with selling maintenance parts and reasonably priced OEM toner that could be used to reliably support used presses? What about 3rd party repair suppliers? Using the above examples, a used press could be obtained for 1/10th of a new machine and service contract, but could certainly be a boat anchor without reliable supply chain and repair manuals.

 

[kdw75]

This guy amazes me with his fearlessness. He jumps right in and starts replacing boards and parts.

 

[msaeger]

Thanks for posting that channel that guy looks like he has some interesting stuff to watch. If you don't have a contact and there is something you can't fix you can always call and do time and materials. Searching on the internet I see some places selling parts and toner. I doubt that there are any of the companies that sell new machines that are going to want to sell the parts and supplies cheaply.

 

[jwheeler]

I used to sell digital presses for KM direct. In my area (southern California) there are plenty of 3rd party repair companies that service just about any make/model of digital presses. There are a handful of print shops that operate this way. They have multiple machines for redundancy because the repairs won't be as timely as if you were on a service contract with the dealer. Like the guy in the Youtube video, those guys tend to learn how to fix the machines on their own so they don't have to rely on the techs.

The biggest warning I would put out there is how many generations back that machine is. Our service manager said manufacturers are only required to continue making supplies/parts for 7 years beyond the last year it was sold. Other than that, the owners of these shops swear they save a ton of money going this route....though I doubt they actually sit down and run the true numbers for comparison. I imagine on months where you have little repairs, you save a ton, but then when a big repair(s) come, or you have jobs with heavy coverage and you're eating up toner, you lose out that month. I personally like the idea of a fixed flat click charge because you know exactly how much margin you're making.

A couple other ideas to consider for the best deals:

1. Buy at the right time: wait for the end of a quarter, the calendar year and fiscal year. The reps are usually desperate to hit their quota and will pull out all of the deals...plus the company will usually release end of quarter/year promos like 0% interest and free clicks.
2. Buy right after the manufacturer comes out with a new model: The dealers will usually dump their demo room machines for significantly less to make room for a the new model - and those machines have been taken care of very well. Plus, the company will usually make deals on the older model to clear out the inventory in the warehouses.

 

[BEYOND]

Any reliable source for OEM toners, parts and used but in good condition KM press machine ?

 

[SoggyWinter]

wirebids lists some KM machines coming up for auction soon.

 

[BEYOND]

wirebids lists some KM machines coming up for auction soon.

Thank you so much for the info. Much appreciated.

 

[Puch]

It's time to realize how privileged you and your operations are. This 'new machine + service contract with the manufacturer' scheme is only viable in the 'first world'. In Eastern Europe only 70 percent of the machines sold and operated this way. Go east and/or south and the 'contractless' operations become the norm. Do you really think that a small family business in Asia or Africa can afford a heavily marked up machine from the manufacturer, plus a contract which can't honestly be honored, because the basic infrastructure like roads, rock-solid electricity or a reliable internet connection is missing? Yet, those companies are operating, tens of thousand of used, old machines are churning out pages at their 3rd or 4th owner. And yes, somehow they manage to buy parts, toner and service their machines.

 

[BEYOND]

It's time to realize how privileged you and your operations are. This 'new machine + service contract with the manufacturer' scheme is only viable in the 'first world'. In Eastern Europe only 70 percent of the machines sold and operated this way. Go east and/or south and the 'contractless' operations become the norm. Do you really think that a small family business in Asia or Africa can afford a heavily marked up machine from the manufacturer, plus a contract which can't honestly be honored, because the basic infrastructure like roads, rock-solid electricity or a reliable internet connection is missing? Yet, those companies are operating, tens of thousand of used, old machines are churning out pages at their 3rd or 4th owner. And yes, somehow they manage to buy parts, toner and service their machines.

Very deep and true.

 

[msaeger]

It's time to realize how privileged you and your operations are. This 'new machine + service contract with the manufacturer' scheme is only viable in the 'first world'. In Eastern Europe only 70 percent of the machines sold and operated this way. Go east and/or south and the 'contractless' operations become the norm. Do you really think that a small family business in Asia or Africa can afford a heavily marked up machine from the manufacturer, plus a contract which can't honestly be honored, because the basic infrastructure like roads, rock-solid electricity or a reliable internet connection is missing? Yet, those companies are operating, tens of thousand of used, old machines are churning out pages at their 3rd or 4th owner. And yes, somehow they manage to buy parts, toner and service their machines.

I wonder what their expectations are though for print quality? People here have very high expectations because they are used to paying that click charge and being able to call for anything.

After watching the just a printer's videos I asked a couple customers if they would try that and they both would not because they do not have the knowledge to be able to fix the machine.

 

[Puch]

I wonder what their expectations are though for print quality? People here have very high expectations because they are used to paying that click charge and being able to call for anything.

There are the expectations of the business owner and there are the actual expectations of the clients. The two buckets not necessarily match even in advanced markets like the US or the EU. Many businesses don't realize that they could be able to serve their client base with a much lower specced machine. Hence most of the investments are overkill. The thing is, that at slower markets the investment decisions are much more realistic, based on the street's needs. There is no money to waste on bells and whistles used only once in a year.

After watching the just a printer's videos I asked a couple customers if they would try that and they both would not because they do not have the knowledge to be able to fix the machine.

They just don't have the courage to do it right now. It's easier to call the techs because they're available and there is the contract. This whole scheme makes the printhouses more vulnerable, they're underdogs. The manufacturer holds all the cards. But it can be changed as people in emerging markets demonstrate.

 

[kdw75]

It is a different mindset running contract machines. From 17-36 I spent my days running offset presses, some of which were past their prime. Fixing parts and doing temporary fixes to get the job done were just a standard part of the job. Later I moved up to newer machines, but still would have to use your head to run jobs that were on challenging materials or had other issues. Now I spend most of my time running digital machines and you it was a little hard to not try and fix them, but then I would think that they are getting paid good money to fix it for me.

It does give me some comfort that we have all of our offset presses ready to go if need be.

 

[azehnali]

every customer that tries to fix the machine on their own has the machine running at 40% of what the quality and efficiency should be but they look the other way because of the savings
If you are running the machine at its capacity then your monthly cost savings versus not having a contract would be maybe 20% and you would be spending majority of your time trying to fiddle with the copier rather than having to sit back and run production
Plus I have never heard of running 80,000 clicks on one set of toner unless you are running blank sheets

 

[SoggyWinter]

Vendors don't always make good decisions with hiring and retaining service techs. I've had weeks of downtime due to poorly trained techs and bad attitudes.

every customer that tries to fix the machine on their own has the machine running at 40% of what the quality and efficiency should be but they look the other way because of the savings
If you are running the machine at its capacity then your monthly cost savings versus not having a contract would be maybe 20% and you would be spending majority of your time trying to fiddle with the copier rather than having to sit back and run production
Plus I have never heard of running 80,000 clicks on one set of toner unless you are running blank sheets

 

[gazfocus]

One thing to consider is that there are dealers out there that sell used/refurbished presses that have been refurbished by the manufacturer and are still n a service contract. We did this with our first press (a Xerox C560). It had been fully refurbished before we bought it and was sold by an authorised xerox dealer with a Xerox service contract. The click charge was higher because it was an older model but the cost of the machine made up for that.

 

[OriginalScuddy]

we just bought a C2070 full boat super cheap, no harder then a C6501 to maintain.