Users Poll proofing Rips GMG vs Oris

[Mike Strickler]

Why consider only GMG and ORIS? EFI Colorproof XF v. 4.0 is so much easier to use, has more automation and sophisticated color control--e.g., the "Dynamic Wedge" that verifies proof compliance based on actual image content and generates an L*a*b* correction curve on the fly, scheduled relins, client-server architecture, the best spot color matching and editing of any RIP, complete scalability, the fastest ripping speeds available (genuine Adobe multi-threading CPSI and PDF print engine), and use of real ICC profiles not a closed, proprietary format. EFI drives more printer models than any other proofing RIP, including production printers (Vutek, Roland, Mimaki, etc.) I'll admit that GMG and CGS have better marketing, but EFI has by far the largest user base (60,000 v. 8,000 for GMG) and the deepest technical resources and support, not to mention the better engineered and easier-to-use product.

Mike Strickler
Certified EFI BestColor Implementer
Idealliance G7 Expert

 

[stargate]

Mike,

It's pretty easy to re-linearize proofer in gmg (and Oris) but how can you do it in EFI? Assuming you have 2 printers and one of them drifted away. How would you do it?

 

[Bungle]

Our customers here in the UK who have chosen GMG have absolutely no complaints whatsoever, and it's always interesting to get similar feedback from people like yourselves on this forum.

Interesting that Mike points out EFI drives more printer models and any other proofing RIp including productions printers...well as far as I can see GMG focusses on colour management specifically in the proofing sector, and perhaps this is one of the reasons why GMG has become widely recognised as the benchmark solution globally. More and more repro houses / printers are switched on to the remote proofing scenario that can be achieved with GMG...we have clients in the UK who produce proofs for approval here and they can confidently approve those proofs knowing that their print partners overseas will be looking at the same colour providing certain criteria are mirrored at each site. It works.

Marketing is one thing, delivering a quality product with real-life advantages for users is another.

Cheers

Barry

Fastek - Home Page

 

[markf]

Gmg

Gmg

GMG are very good but you'll also need to check out the lifetime costs of the software as they are now charging approx 12% of the purchase price as an annual software maintenance contract and the media is expensive in comparison to the competition. After all you are producing a proof to an industry standard so the name on the paper shouldn't really matter if the proof is verified!.

 

[Ian Mackenzie]

My "Rap on RIPs"

My "Rap on RIPs"

Disclaimer: my compnay distributes EFI and was the original GMG distributor in the US.

In our lab, we have 24 ink jet printers and every RIP under the sun.
We have tremendous respect for CGS and believe that, as Steve Smiley points out, they really care about partnering with large companies like Vertis.

However, when you are not Vertis, Quad, etc, there are other factors.

- How well do they work with the printer OEMs?
- How expensive is their paper?
- Do you get such great support if you use more cost effective paper?

EFI and Epson have joined forces and launched an OEM deal together. Everyone should take notice of this. Why? Simple.....there is a belief out there that external 3rd party RIPs will soon be redundant. How? Simple....look at other businesses like digital printers. there were external controllers (RIPS) for years. Now most of these applications are embedded on chip-sets and installed inside the print engine.

we see this happening with inkjet printers in the next 18 months.
also, CGS threw a wrench at Epson at a compnay who is also mentioned in this thread.
Epson has taken notice and there may be challenges with some of the RIPs company's SDK apllications going forward. additionally, with multi-color new print engines, you will aslo need RIP support that addresses these new features. I do not believe that the fundamental features in GMG and CGS RIPs will allow companies to take advanatge of these new technologies.

As far as we are concerned.....ALL RIPs give equal quality. (EFI, GMG, CGS, Kodak, etc.)
here is what we feel differntiates the products:

1. Adoption of PDF print engine technology
2. TRUE client/server architecture
3. Mutli-processing (RIP multiple files at once)
4. ICC-based
5. Simple, elegant GUI
6. Ease of install, training, etc.

while "your mileage may vary", we believe that your local reseller is also an importnat part of this.

 

[dimitri]

Reply to stargate's question on how to relinearize on EFI... and some ranting.
The new 9900 epson would automatically re-linearize itself if you have the online spectro through the EFI v4.0 rip. I haven't seen the old epson 9800 drifting with the EFI v3 rip. We measure the LAB of the solids for every proof, and if we missed color we just had to do a nozzle check. There was actually only one time we had to get a service on the 9800 because it drifted, 6 months after purchase. But we were told that was normal service maintenance.

I'm not supportive of EFI however. Kind of stuck with it. The white point adjustments, on either v3 or v4, pretty much sucks. If the white point is off, you have to go literally by eye, since the LAB values you can plug in the Color Manager white point adjustment feature are not actually being matched by the printed output; then you have to imagine what LAB values you choose so that the printed ouput goes where you want... or at least try. You just have to rely on adjusting the white point of the reference profile through Monaco or ProfileMaker. Also, i'm not fond of the the visual linearization features. There was something missing there. Maybe they are better in v4 but haven't played with them enough yet. Still, the EFI rip gets us there.

Oh... service is horrible too. We are within a month of free support and people are off the Mombasa coast hunting French tankers. Ah.... I said it. Maybe someone responds now.

 

[Ian Mackenzie]

stargate

stargate

i see that you did not get a response to your question.
we are somewhat uniquely qualified here as we were the ones who launched GMG in the US originally. GMG then decided to leverage our success into efforts of their own.

with EFI XF....

EFI XF version 4 uses an iterative recalibration process much like gmg. You also receive Delta-E feedback, also much like in gmg.

You simply right-click on the printer in XF, select the recalibration option, the wizard launches, print the target, measure and follow the instructions if iteration is required, which the interface tells you.

It's quite simple.

 

[Digital Scans]

I'm about to purchase a GMG or Oris Rip -probably GMG to drive epsons as contract proofsi was wondering which you guys use and would love any insight

The biggest problem with the Oris Color software, it is now very user friendly however if you work with it
long enough like anything else you get used to it.

KG

 

[yannb]

i see that you did not get a response to your question.
we are somewhat uniquely qualified here as we were the ones who launched GMG in the US originally. GMG then decided to leverage our success into efforts of their own.

with EFI XF....

EFI XF version 4 uses an iterative recalibration process much like gmg. You also receive Delta-E feedback, also much like in gmg.

You simply right-click on the printer in XF, select the recalibration option, the wizard launches, print the target, measure and follow the instructions if iteration is required, which the interface tells you.

It's quite simple.

... not to mention that the client AND server of EFI Colorproof XF run natively on mac too, which is a bonus if your prepress/artwork operators are mainly mac oriented.

Another disadvantage of the GMG rip: you're stuck with their paper. Personally, I like to pick the proofing paper which has a whitepoint as close as possible to what I'm simulating (or the customer for that matter). For this reason, I measure each paper I encounter with my Eye One Pro on white backing.
Here in Europe, proofing is mainly done towards the ISOcoatedV2 profile. For that purpose, we use the EFI Gravure 4245 paper, which has almost the same whitepoint:

ISOcoatedV2 L 95; a 0 ; b -2

EFI 4245 paper L 94,7 ; a 0,3 ; b -1,7.
delta E with ISOcoatedv2: 0,52

GMG Proof Paper Semi Matte L 97 ; a -1,1 ; b -0,6.
delta E with ISOcoatedV2: 2,68

The result is that even with absolute colorimetric rendering (the most exact proofing method), there is no visible whitepoint simulation printed on the EFI 4245 paper. With GMG paper, there is a background printed, because the paper is too white.

Regards,
Yann Bouckaert

 

[meddington]

Another disadvantage of the GMG rip: you're stuck with their paper.

Why are you "stuck" with it. You do have the option of creating your own profiles with the paper of your choice. Moreover, I don't really see absolute rendering (background printing) as a problem. In fact, a brighter paper would allow more versatility in paper shade simulation.

 

[Ian Mackenzie]

i agree with Mike.

i agree with Mike.

The only circumstance that I have encountered where GMG attempts to "stick" you with their paper is when an HP 3100/3200 is involved.

Otherwise, you can use whatever paper you like.
Even in the case of the HP 3100, we figured out a work-around to counter GMG's attempt to lock you into their paper.

It's funny.....the EFI paper sold in EMEA comes from the same converter that sells to GMG....
GMG, CGS, EFI.....heck, even Epson, Kodak and others.....all they do is put their name on paper in a private label OEM deal.

You can find (an equivalent for) GMG Satin 250 for about 45% less from many sources if you know where to look. The EFI paper in Europe comes from Tecco near Dusseldorf.

 

[couriergraphics]

GMG here & love it

GMG here & love it

We have been GMG for over 5 years & love it.

 

[vijayronak]

is anybody using Starpoof these days