Using PitStop Server 13 to detect bleed on even and odd single pdf pages?

[PrepressMarkus]

Hello!


I am using Agfa Arkitex production and work with newsprint. I am going to start using the Preflight function in Arkitex together with a PitStop 13 Server. I receive on a daily basis single page pdfs and I would like to check them so that the bleed is enough, compared to the trim box.


Now to my question..

Since I receive single page pdfs, my PitStop Preflight Profile will not know if it is a right or a left page. The bleed will need to be different on left and right pages because of the spine. At odd numbered pages the inner part of the page, the spine, is to the left so there can be 0 (zero) mm bleed, and the opposite on even pages. But on the single page pdfs there are no information if it is an even or odd page.


I hoped PitStop could read the file names and so on, in that way the file naming would help me. But that seem to be impossible. Does someone out here have ny ideas?


// Markus

 

[prepressdork]

Although there may very well be a way to do it, the only way I can think of (from your post it sounds like the names of the files include page numbers) would be to have two hot folders in Pitstop Server: one for left pages, and one for right pages.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Thinking out loud… It is possible to chain PitStop Server hot folders together. So the success or failure of one hot folder can feed the input of another hot folder. If a left page failed as the first hot folder was a right hand page bleed check, then the failure could move the file into the input folder for a right hand page.

It may also help if you can provide samples file name conventions, sample files etc.


Stephen Marsh

 

[zoran]

This sounds like a perfect case to use Enfocus Switch in combination with Pitstop Server. Switch would read file names and route them through different Pitstop Server flows for results.

 

[PrepressMarkus]

Hi there

Thanks for your answers!

Yes, my file names contains the page numbers, and also edition number and date and so on. For example: ProductA1161118E101.pdf. The last "01" is the pagination of the page.

The problem is that all the printfiles comes in to my workflow system, and that system can not automatically see if it is a left or right side. If it could filter out the pages and put them in different PitStop hotfolders it could be perfect..

I will try to make the hotfolders to work together, if that can be a solution. But still, PitStop dont know if it is a right or left page..

And yes, Switch would probably do the job, but I only have PitStop and would really like to make it work without buying new software just to filter even/odd pages.

 

[abc]

Another potential solution with standalone PitStop Server would be if you have any kind of XML job ticket that could be used to distinguish between left/right hand pages.
Then you could use a variable to turn on/off left/right hand bleed functionality.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

I will try to make the hotfolders to work together, if that can be a solution. But still, PitStop dont know if it is a right or left page..

Are all of your pages the same size or do they vary?

Are there valid page boxes for trim box and or bleed box?

If you can provide sample left and right facing files, that would help (you can delete off sensitive content but leave the bleed elements in place).



Stephen Marsh

 

[PrepressMarkus]

Hi!

The pages are all the same size. And there are valid media and trim boxes.

I send one left and one right page here. On page "04" bleed on the image can be zero to the right but the blue line is outside the trimbox to the left which is correct.

 

[PrepressMarkus]

Hello

I just wanted to check if the pages I provided was of any help? I understand this i a bit tricky, but if there is the slightest chance that there is a way to solve the problem it would be great .

 

[WiseGuy]

Marcus... dumb question, but does it really matter on the odd and even pages? Won't the Imposition software clip the inner spines anyway?

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Hello

I just wanted to check if the pages I provided was of any help? I understand this i a bit tricky, but if there is the slightest chance that there is a way to solve the problem it would be great .

Sorry Markus, I have run out of “free time” (however I do have this filed away as a project for when I have downtime). The last time I looked at this, the samples provided did not have a correct trim box (however this was fairly easily fixed with an action list).

Perhaps ABC can use this as a “case study” in an upcoming webinar!


Stephen Marsh

 

[michaelejahn]

Marcus... dumb question, but does it really matter on the odd and even pages? Won't the Imposition software clip the inner spines anyway?

Yes, I am kinda wondering if you are over thinking this. MANY pagination engines IGNORE Trim and Bleed boxes completely, as they simply center the PDF ( this is a pretty common approach because

a. Most folks that are designing a page have no idea HOW MUCH bleed the printer needs
b. Most Folks designing pages DO NOT CARE how much bleed you might want

but even if your pagination app actually looked for an used the TimBox and BleedBox, and EVEN if they were correct, they would simply IGNORE BleedBox and use the TrimBox so the left side "even number" page right side edge of the trim box lands on the gutter, and that is touching the left side TrimBox of the right side page "odd number" page

 

[PrepressMarkus]

Okay, thanks Stephen . Let me know if I can provide better pdfs. I did think the boxes where correct, but maybe I was wrong. Just let me, or us in the forum thread, know if you find out anything. I will also have this as a project aside all other to find out a solution .


Hehe, yes maybe I am over thinking it a bit. But, I am having discussions with some customers that wants me to find if their pages are missing bleed. So, then I need to find if the pages have bleed in the correct directions corresponding to if the page is a right or a left page.
If an even page dont have bleed to the right, that is okay since that is in the gutter, but then, next odd page need to have bleed to the right but not to the left. That is why I would like to sort out even and odd pages out.

Thanks everyone for nice answers . Hope we solve this... Have a nice weekend!

 

[abc]

Hi Markus. Just out of interest. I assume your customers don't know when they submit an Ad, if the page they are being printed on is a left or right hand page?
I know they will for the inside front/back, but do you sell Ads by page allocation within editorial?
If not then why not just check for bleed on all edges, then you are completely covered, you can then let your page pairer/imposition tool hand the rest.

 

[PrepressMarkus]

Well, I am receiving print ready pages at a coldset printer company. A few of our customers have asked if we can provide the service of having a "missing bleed warning" on the customer approval portal. If I can provide that, my customers will get noticed if they miss the bleed at some points.
And if I check if the pages miss bleed at all edges, I will get error very often because the pages always miss bleed in the spine. This is why I want to sort out the even/odd pages, to make two different checks for bleed..

Hope you understand my explanation // Markus

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Okay, thanks Stephen . Let me know if I can provide better pdfs. I did think the boxes where correct, but maybe I was wrong. Just let me, or us in the forum thread, know if you find out anything. I will also have this as a project aside all other to find out a solution

A couple of different PDF’s may help. These need to be representative of the files in production. If one set has different page boxes than another set, then the method that I was thinking of is going to break. If you can’t guarantee consistent trim page boxes (your clients are all over the place), then can we presume that all pages have correct trim marks in all/rego colour?

P.S. Can you also provide two left hand pages, one that would pass and one that would fail? Same for the right…


Stephen Marsh

 

[PrepressMarkus]

Hello!

Okay, I prepared four files for you. We always get files with the same media and page boxes from each customer. They differ in sizes between customers, but not within the jobs, so to say.

Here comes four files from our production, two even and two odd ones. I added ”_OK” and ”_FAIL” in the file name so you can tell which one to use. In both fail-files there are lines that only reach to the trim box, but not over it which creates a situation without bleed. Those lines need to trigger a report for me from PitStop.

This is interesting . Please let me know if I can provide anything more.


Regards // Markus

 

[PrepressMarkus]

Hi there

I amjust taking a chance to see if the files I uploaded can be of any help. I respect that all of you have a lot to do, but this is very interesting I think. And I did the files according to the requests, so it would be very nice to see if there are any chance to see if it can work?

Have a nice day! // Markus

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Hi Markus, I did try the test files and I hit a brick wall, however my hope was that by providing test files somebody else may be able to help… I still hold that hope!

I am hoping that ABC can make this a part of the free monthly workshop webinars.


Stephen Marsh

 

[PrepressMarkus]

Okay, I understand

Well, I hope maybe someone other also have this need. Would be interesting with a seminar about it and to discuss with others.

Take care everyone and have a nice weekend! // Markus