Versant 4100 Vs Ricoh 7210

[xenonuy]

Hello everyone. I have been a reader of the forum for a while and today I was encouraged to post a query.

We are in uruguay, and we currently have a xerox versant 80, we are looking to upgrade and incorporate a second color press, and we are looking at between a versant 4100 and a ricoh 7210.
Our experience with xerox has been very good for 12 years (we started with a xerox 700) and although there was a problem with the color cylinders and the 2nd btr, now that is somewhat solved.

We're looking for the lowest print price, improved registration and color consistency over long runs, so we see both machines offer that. The price is very similar on both machines, the copy cost is a little lower on the xerox.
my only fear with ricoh is that everyone says the toner is brighter, and my customers are very happy with the quality of our xerox. (in fact it is the only one in our market dominated by konica).

Another point in xerox's favor is that we get a significant discount on all supplies, which are the same as our versant 80, so it would also benefit this machine in the long run.

We were also evaluating a KM12000 but we discarded it due to the quality problems mentioned in the forum.
The other machine to evaluate was the Ricoh 9200 but they do not have it enabled to sell in our country...

I appreciate any advice and experience you can provide me.

 

[Shawnd]

You don't mention how Ricoh's service is in your area. That should be a huge factor in your decision, talk to other Ricoh owners and see how service has been and parts availability in your area.

Sounds like your already sold on sticking with Xerox.

 

[xenonuy]

You don't mention how Ricoh's service is in your area. That should be a huge factor in your decision, talk to other Ricoh owners and see how service has been and parts availability in your area.

Sounds like your already sold on sticking with Xerox.

I don't know what Ricoh's service is like here, I didn't find a colleague who has this press in his printing press, there are 2 installed but in the government.

I contacted a colleague from another country who changed his V180 for the same Ricoh and his experience is very good.

I lean towards Xerox, but I don't like being so dependent on a single provider, that's why I don't rule out Ricoh and I have the doubt.

 

[bill kahny]

Can't ricoh sales give you a reference to their closest customer

 

[xenonuy]

They

Can't ricoh sales give you a reference to their closest customer

They sent me the reference of who has it, I called him on the phone but they don't want to talk about it. There are no good relations between colleagues in this country.

 

[pippip]

I don't know what Ricoh's service is like here, I didn't find a colleague who has this press in his printing press, there are 2 installed but in the government.

I contacted a colleague from another country who changed his V180 for the same Ricoh and his experience is very good.

I lean towards Xerox, but I don't like being so dependent on a single provider, that's why I don't rule out Ricoh and I have the doubt.

Or you can look at it being you're a stronger client with two machines and they'll go out of your way to help more.

Also the advantage of getting the 4100 is that if you do have a breakdown on either machine or have such volume you need to two machines going two cover the workload you know the prints on each will match and don't have to consider what goes on what and not being able to split large jobs.

Ask Ricoh can you have the name of a few of their clients within a reasonable distance from you. If they can't provide at least one I'd be seriously worried about how they can supply a good service experience in your area.

 

[Lorenzo lab guy]

We went from a Versant 80 to a Versant 4100 and also had Docu 700 long ago. We loved the reliability of the V80 but the V4100 reliability has not been quite as good. Still, we have good service from Xerox and even though we have made more service calls on the V4100 we have never been down very long. But, we have had more down time on the V4100 than we did on the V80. We are running a bit more volume on the V4100 so this is not precisely a direct comparison. I would say if you are happy as you say with the Xerox service then the V4100 will be fine, especially if you have a backup for being a few hours down from time to time. As is often mentioned here frequently, service support may be more important than any machine capabilitiy comparisons.

 

[xenonuy]

Pasamos de una Versant 80 a una Versant 4100 y también tuvimos Docu 700 hace mucho tiempo. Nos encantó la confiabilidad del V80, pero la confiabilidad del V4100 no ha sido tan buena. Aún así, tenemos un buen servicio de Xerox y, aunque hemos realizado más llamadas de servicio en el V4100, nunca hemos estado fuera de servicio por mucho tiempo. Pero hemos tenido más tiempo de inactividad con el V4100 que con el V80. Estamos ejecutando un poco más de volumen en el V4100, por lo que esta no es precisamente una comparación directa. Diría que si está satisfecho con el servicio de Xerox, como dice, entonces el V4100 estará bien, especialmente si tiene una copia de seguridad por estar algunas horas fuera de servicio de vez en cuando. Como se menciona aquí con frecuencia, el soporte de servicio puede ser más importante que cualquier comparación de capacidad de la máquina.

what do you mean by reliability? What problems have you had with this device? Registration problems?

Tomorrow I have to try the RICOH, but from what I was finding out, a strong point of Xerox (which I did not see mentioned in the forum) is its compatibility with subsequent finishes such as uv varnish. I have to do tests but apparently it wouldn't work for this, just like KM.

 

[msaeger]

what do you mean by reliability? What problems have you had with this device? Registration problems?

Tomorrow I have to try the RICOH, but from what I was finding out, a strong point of Xerox (which I did not see mentioned in the forum) is its compatibility with subsequent finishes such as uv varnish. I have to do tests but apparently it wouldn't work for this, just like KM.

I have had customers that uv coat things they printed on a Ricoh machine. I also have customers that laminate. I think different coatings work with different machines. The best is to print some samples and try it.

 

[Lorenzo lab guy]

what do you mean by reliability? What problems have you had with this device? Registration problems?

Tomorrow I have to try the RICOH, but from what I was finding out, a strong point of Xerox (which I did not see mentioned in the forum) is its compatibility with subsequent finishes such as uv varnish. I have to do tests but apparently it wouldn't work for this, just like KM.

Mostly simple paper jams. Also sensors that get dirty and shut down things too frequently. Nothing big.

 

[kslight]

I don’t have any experience with the newer Xerox equipment but our Ricoh 7210x is rock solid. Very rarely need to see service.

 

[xenonuy]

This week I went with the technical manager of Ricoh to test the equipment that works in a state company.

I went with very high expectations for sure, and I was very disappointed. I went with 5 papers that we use every day with our versant and in a whole morning we couldn't get it to print correctly on the machine. For me it was a bad paper setting, but the technician tried several and concluded that the paper is not compatible.

I've tried BOPP Adhesive Matte, which doesn't print it, then BOPP Clear, which prints it but the toner comes out.
Regular sticker paper used with the versant won't match the proper quality either.
We were only able to print a 350gr matte print compared to the fact that the full ones came out very scratched (probably due to the wear of the color cylinders, which the technician told me was not, that the cylinders were fine, but I don't know how I already knew that the machine does not indicate the state of the cylinders like the versant....

I have attached a photo of the results.

I did the test of printing 350gr front and back, and I was not able to register the print after several attempts, the technician's conclusion is that this machine cannot print paper so thick front and back, that I would not have more than 250gr.. .
This seems crazy to me, in my versant80 I print 350gr front and back every day without problem, even 400gr.

I'm sure they should be able to do it, they just seemed to me that they have no idea how to use the machine....which I find unfortunate.

Also another important point is that ricoh toner is not compatible with any of the uv varnishes we have.

To be objective, the Ricoh I tested had 3 million impressions, I can't compare it to a new machine or my versant, which has almost half that.
But if what caught my attention was the poor general condition of the machine, very dirty rollers, with dirt from many months... this makes me think that Ricoh's technical service in my country is not good; My Xerox is very well maintained and comes in for regular cleanings.
It is correct to say that you have to look in the technical service....

Finally xerox lowered the maintenance click cost for both machines and the copy cost is lower than ricoh. It gave me the same cost for the two machines, since even from the corporation they told me that the 4100 does not have high maintenance costs like other versions... this is signed with a contract so they have to be very sure of that.

I am glad that I was able to test the Ricoh, since I was able to clear up many doubts. It would have been a serious problem not being able to print our usual papers.

I already signed for the 4100. Now I just have to wait.

 

[TJPrinter]

Finally xerox lowered the maintenance click cost for both machines and the copy cost is lower than ricoh. It gave me the same cost for the two machines, since even from the corporation they told me that the 4100 does not have high maintenance costs like other versions... this is signed with a contract so they have to be very sure of that.

Wow, good for you! Great service really can make or break a deal.

 

[Dito]

This week I went with the technical manager of Ricoh to test the equipment that works in a state company.

I went with very high expectations for sure, and I was very disappointed. I went with 5 papers that we use every day with our versant and in a whole morning we couldn't get it to print correctly on the machine. For me it was a bad paper setting, but the technician tried several and concluded that the paper is not compatible.

I've tried BOPP Adhesive Matte, which doesn't print it, then BOPP Clear, which prints it but the toner comes out.
Regular sticker paper used with the versant won't match the proper quality either.
We were only able to print a 350gr matte print compared to the fact that the full ones came out very scratched (probably due to the wear of the color cylinders, which the technician told me was not, that the cylinders were fine, but I don't know how I already knew that the machine does not indicate the state of the cylinders like the versant....

I have attached a photo of the results.

I did the test of printing 350gr front and back, and I was not able to register the print after several attempts, the technician's conclusion is that this machine cannot print paper so thick front and back, that I would not have more than 250gr.. .
This seems crazy to me, in my versant80 I print 350gr front and back every day without problem, even 400gr.

I'm sure they should be able to do it, they just seemed to me that they have no idea how to use the machine....which I find unfortunate.

Also another important point is that ricoh toner is not compatible with any of the uv varnishes we have.

To be objective, the Ricoh I tested had 3 million impressions, I can't compare it to a new machine or my versant, which has almost half that.
But if what caught my attention was the poor general condition of the machine, very dirty rollers, with dirt from many months... this makes me think that Ricoh's technical service in my country is not good; My Xerox is very well maintained and comes in for regular cleanings.
It is correct to say that you have to look in the technical service....

Finally xerox lowered the maintenance click cost for both machines and the copy cost is lower than ricoh. It gave me the same cost for the two machines, since even from the corporation they told me that the 4100 does not have high maintenance costs like other versions... this is signed with a contract so they have to be very sure of that.

I am glad that I was able to test the Ricoh, since I was able to clear up many doubts. It would have been a serious problem not being able to print our usual papers.

I already signed for the 4100. Now I just have to wait.

Good choice, I also have a V 4100 and I can say that it is a workhorse.

 

[kdw75]

Experiences like this really leave me scratching my head. Our 7210s have been able to print on virtually anything we throw at them except Tyvek. We just finished a 10,000 run of 24pt Tango C1S and the registration was perfect for something that is thicker than the machine is specced to run. We had tried everything possible to run this stock on our Versant 2100 and it wouldn't get a single sheet through the fuser. Our technician said it was way too thick, so we always had to run it offset. We also run lots of synthetic media including pressure-sensitive papers and plastics as well as 20pt pvc for ID badges and punch cards. The toner doesn't come off and is extremely durable. Our Versant 2100 would only run 15pt PVC and the toner wouldn't stick to it unless we got the much more expensive sheet with a digital coating.

I am sure you will be happy with the 4100, but your experience with the Ricoh is perplexing. When we left Xerox they were offering 3 cents per click, but after our experience with bad drums, parts shortages, and toner shortages we weren't interested.

 

[msaeger]

Experiences like this really leave me scratching my head. Our 7210s have been able to print on virtually anything we throw at them except Tyvek. We just finished a 10,000 run of 24pt Tango C1S and the registration was perfect for something that is thicker than the machine is specced to run. We had tried everything possible to run this stock on our Versant 2100 and it wouldn't get a single sheet through the fuser. Our technician said it was way too thick, so we always had to run it offset. We also run lots of synthetic media including pressure-sensitive papers and plastics as well as 20pt pvc for ID badges and punch cards. The toner doesn't come off and is extremely durable. Our Versant 2100 would only run 15pt PVC and the toner wouldn't stick to it unless we got the much more expensive sheet with a digital coating.

I am sure you will be happy with the 4100, but your experience with the Ricoh is perplexing. When we left Xerox they were offering 3 cents per click, but after our experience with bad drums, parts shortages, and toner shortages we weren't interested.

It's all about the service.

 

[Shawnd]

Its a shame that was the best machine they could run a demo on, doesn't sound like it was maintained very well. I to would run away from Ricoh in that area if that is the best they can do.

 

[bill kahny]

Experiences like this really leave me scratching my head. Our 7210s have been able to print on virtually anything we throw at them except Tyvek. We just finished a 10,000 run of 24pt Tango C1S and the registration was perfect for something that is thicker than the machine is specced to run. We had tried everything possible to run this stock on our Versant 2100 and it wouldn't get a single sheet through the fuser. Our technician said it was way too thick, so we always had to run it offset. We also run lots of synthetic media including pressure-sensitive papers and plastics as well as 20pt pvc for ID badges and punch cards. The toner doesn't come off and is extremely durable. Our Versant 2100 would only run 15pt PVC and the toner wouldn't stick to it unless we got the much more expensive sheet with a digital coating.

I am sure you will be happy with the 4100, but your experience with the Ricoh is perplexing. When we left Xerox they were offering 3 cents per click, but after our experience with bad drums, parts shortages, and toner shortages we weren't interested.

What feeder configuration does your 7210 have?

 

[kdw75]

What feeder configuration does your 7210 have?

They have 13x19 vacuum feeders. One has an oversize 27" top drawer and the other has two drawers and the bypass tray.