Water resistance of Epson pigment inks - what claims can you make

[bhm8hwcm]

I am new to the large format market and have bought an Epson 9700 aqueous machine to get my feet wet. I like the speed, size and price of the machine and thought it was a good entry level machine.

I understand this machine is intended for printing more on media used for indoor use however I know some media can be used outside and that the inks are 'water resistant' to a degree and the inks are fade proof.

Any thoughts on what a realistic time period for say a scrim banner material would last outside in the rain etc. or how long it would be before someone saw fading?

Just looking for some general guidelines. Not looking to go head-to-head against solvent printers etc. rather am looking for advice as to what I can promote and feel comfortable with my claims.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

I have done some very, very basic tests with matte polypropylene banner and PET backlit film material with the x900 and x800 models, with standard pigment inks (photo and matte black), there was a little bit of bleed/running, however most of the sign was still OK. I think that you will need to do you own tests with your own material and put it through some of your own "weathering" tests. As long as you make it clear to end users that this is not intended for long term signage, you should not have too many issues.

I used to use a HP Designjet 5000, the dye based inks were not intended for outdoor use and they would fade very fast. It could also print UV inks, which were intended for outdoor use and they were a lot better than the dye inks.


Stephen Marsh

 

[warist]

Where are you in the world? It really varies on where you are and your climate. I'm in Las Vegas for example and I have to be really careful with fading, but if I were in Seattle then I would hardly have fading to worry about.

As far as the estimates from there I always lean on the side of caution. Your customer might not be happy with the time frame they are giving you, but in the end you are making a promise you can keep. Also, if your banner or whatever lasts longer than you say it looks good and when and if they need a new one they'll probably come back.

 

[chevalier]

I actually printed a map on an Epson 9900 on semi-matte proofing paper and took it on a weeklong canoe trip back in the spring. It got drenched and abused constantly. The stock didn't hold up very well but the ink never faded or reliquified. If the stock has a good oxidizing coating on it you shouldn't have issues but be sure to test some materials.

 

[Correct Color]

Any thoughts on what a realistic time period for say a scrim banner material would last outside in the rain etc. or how long it would be before someone saw fading?

Just looking for some general guidelines. Not looking to go head-to-head against solvent printers etc. rather am looking for advice as to what I can promote and feel comfortable with my claims.

Thing is though, whether you're looking to or not, you are going to be going head-to-head against solvent printers if you want to print scrim banners. Certainly in your area there are sign shops that would love to have the work.

And you'll never be price competitive at all, because your media costs will be more than double theirs.

Basically, all aqueous media is the media, plus a receptor coat for the ink. That's why they're so much more expensive. Solvent media is just the media. The receptor coat traps the ink and holds it, and that's why some materials can be very water resistant, conceivably rivaling solvent. As to fade in direct sunlight, since most people don't do that with aqueous anymore, who knows? Myself, I'd be uncomfortable claiming more than a couple months at the absolute outside.

You might not want to take it, but my advice as you get into this would be to sell jobs you can make money on, and leave outdoor alone.

Mike Adams
Correct Color