What am I missing without a RIP?

[kdw75]

I have an Epson 7600, 9600 and 9900 that my company uses for printing everything from schematics to event posters and banners. We calibrate them using the Spyder 4 Elite and over the past few years haven't ever had any complaints. I keep wondering though why so many people talk about needing a RIP for production work, though I can't see any reason for it. We print out of Indesign mostly. Would our prints look noticeably better with a RIP? Would the colors be more accurate? Would it save us money on ink?

 

[gordo]

I keep wondering though why so many people talk about needing a RIP for production work, though I can't see any reason for it. We print out of Indesign mostly. Would our prints look noticeably better with a RIP? Would the colors be more accurate? Would it save us money on ink?

There is always a RIP - even if it's basic and not visible to the user.

gordo

 

[kdw75]

There is always a RIP - even if it's basic and not visible to the user.

gordo

I should have been more specific. I was referring to 3rd party RIPS vs the Epson one.

 

[M&M Displays]

I have an Epson 7600, 9600 and 9900 that my company uses for printing everything from schematics to event posters and banners. We calibrate them using the Spyder 4 Elite and over the past few years haven't ever had any complaints. I keep wondering though why so many people talk about needing a RIP for production work, though I can't see any reason for it. We print out of Indesign mostly. Would our prints look noticeably better with a RIP? Would the colors be more accurate? Would it save us money on ink?

Yes
Yes
Yes
Only you can decide if a RIP is worth it for you. We have been running a EFI Rip for our Epson 9800, HP Z6100 and Vutek digital presses for years. Once calibrated and max ink limit set the prints are much better

 

[michaelejahn]

Some folks feel they need a way to simulate halftone screening, or need better simulation for spot colors.

There are a variety of things like that ( another one is control of white ink when printing on metallic substrate, like is available with the EPSON WT7900 )

When i worked for Compose, customers used our RIP to create halftone screened bitmaps to be used for their platesetter, and used the same set of 1 bit TIFF files to drive the EPSON ( we sold Star Proof to accomplish the 'colorization' (or color management is you will ) of these 1 bit TIFF separated files

Compose Color Blog: With Star Proof 6 spot color matching is a breeze

You may not need that. I am not here to say anyone does or does not need that - some customers prefer better spot color simulation. Some prefer proofs that simulate a halftone dot. Not everyone does, but some do.

Hope that helps !

 

[Despotes]

I should have been more specific. I was referring to 3rd party RIPS vs the Epson one.

We have the 9880 with ColorBurst RIP and just a standard 9900. The only problem we have without a 3rd party RIP is the ability to output length over 91". Epson ahs a tiling option that works with Illustrator but not Acrobat or InDesign.

 

[Questor]

RIP needs depend on image and printer...

RIP needs depend on image and printer...

I have also bypassed the external use of a external RIP with SpyderPrint 4's software Raster Image Processor (RIP) and custom ICC profiles SpyderPrint generates for a pair of HP Designjets that I use. I have always been a computer "geek" since 1984 and prefer SpyderPrint over external RIP processors for my small shop use. Listed below are some of my random thoughts on RIP use.

Maybe Gordo can correct me, but RIPs allow the use Adobe Postscript, HP's GL/2, lower quality Printer Control Language (PCL), or other software publisher's proprietary print control languages to enable faster and/or better image processing between a PC/laptop that is directly or remotely connected to a printer. Some external RIPs can handle multiple users and multiple printers image processing at the same time.

External RIP devices were introduced many years a go as a way to allow multiple PCs to connect via a network to the printer(s) and allow the external RIP to:
1.) spool the PC image in a printer queue(s) for better and faster print job management,
2.) free the user's PC/laptop from being slowed down by the CPU converting the raster image to a proprietary printer format,
3.) *possibly* improve the overall image print quality when the proprietary printer control language uses custom settings to enhance printer output.

Please note that external RIPs assume the printer is in perfect synch with OEM specs and customizing the external RIP software for slight color variations or changes may not be possible (ie changing printer ink to a different manufacturer).

In conclusion, the main advantages for me using a SpyderPrint software RIP and not a hardware RIP are:
1.) print quality is the same or better than external RIPs (ie Designjet GL/2 card inserts)
2.) lower overall cost for a quality software RIP for my medium quality printers when compared to on-going purchase and subscription prices for external RIP hardware/software,
3.) SpyderPrint software can easily be customized when I choose with unique ICC profiles generated for each printer. However, this takes much additional time to scan an calibrate hundreds of printed calibration colors
4.) SpyderPrint is indirectly owned by established parent company Pantone which still allows updates to new SpyderPrint printer profiles
5.) SpyderPrint updates are easy software downloads while some external RIPs cannot be updated, may require expensive update subscriptions or have hardware that has to be "traded-in" for an OEM upgrade.

The SpyderPrint disadvantages are:
1.) Printer spot color calibration for ICC profiles can be very slow and may have to be redone whenever a print cartridge is changed or a printer sits unused for several weeks or more
2.) Some Postscript colors show color shifts when a PS doc is later printed on a SpyderPrint RIP
3.) Since the SpyderPrint PC/laptop is doing all of the graphics conversion to a printer control language, this may greatly slow or tie up a user's PC until the print job is completed.

Regards, Steve
former International Paper employee at R&D facility

 

[michaelejahn]

Hi Steve,

When I read this, I became quite confused;

"Printer spot color calibration for ICC profiles can be very slow ..."

So, help me understand - how on earth one can use an ICC profile to 'calibrate a spot color' ?

So, if i have Pantone 151 ( that super saturated Orange ) - would not the RIP bypass / ignore any RGB or CMYK simlation that might be related to that spot color object, and look to the LUT and build that color ? What about Spot colors that are not 100% ? I can't see how an ICC profile would be used at all in that situation, but perhaps I am unfamiliar with how SpyderPrint is using an ICC profile. Can you get within 5 deltaEs of the target Lab values for Pantone spots ?

 

[Questor]

Printer Spot Calibration response...

Printer Spot Calibration response...

Please excuse me if I did not make this clear, printer ICC profiles created by SpyderPrint can be modified within SpyderPrint Pro software...

However, 3rd party printer ICC profiles not created by SpyderPrint Pro probably cannot be modified by SpyderPrint Pro.

To re-calibrate a SpyderPrint ICC profile and permanently adjust color, hue, brightness or intensity, I have to:

1.) print a preset SpyderPrint spot color grid sheet on the target printer. This spot color sheet will contain either 255 colors for a quick scan or several hundred spot colors - depending on the level of measurement and accuracy that you select within the SpyderPrint software configuration.

2.) Take the color spot grid printout and the SpyderPrint Pro spectrometer attached by USB cable to the PC/laptop and measure each of the hundreds of color spot squares in sequence with the SpyderPrint Pro software.

3.) Save the color measurement results as a local calibration file with the SpyderPrint Pro software.

4.) Run the SpyderPrint Pro software to analyze the color measurement results and create a custom ICC profile for the target printer.

5.) Install the custom ICC color profile in the computer's printer profiles

6.) Choose and print a graphic image test page to check results and possibly modify later if needed. Any permanent changes needed for the printer ICC profile would have to be modified/saved by SpyderPrint Pro.

Does this address your question or concerns?

 

[michaelejahn]

@ Steve ( AKA Questor )

Answer my question - well, kinda sorta I suppose - as Pantone has over 2000 spots, not sure 'several hundred' is very helpful for someone in the packaging market.

The question was "using this software, can you get within 5 delta e of the target value of the spot color(s) you are after ?

it "sounds' like if i have a spot color in my PDF, that this somehow gets converted to RGB or "before" it would go through the ICC CMM - which makes no sense to me if what I am trying to do is simulate a spot color using the colorants that are specific to that print system.

So, for example - Pantone 151 probably looks more like a CMYK simulation ( like one might see in the Pantone Color Bridge guide ) as opposed to that very saturated orange that Pantone 151 spot color "is"...

Would you agree with that statement, or it is look like this:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_awnunT4jomg/TBCKPHImd0I/AAAAAAAAAJk/d7LofgRMh0o/s1600/Pantone151.jpg

Curious...

 

[kdw75]

I have also bypassed the external use of a external RIP with SpyderPrint 4's software Raster Image Processor (RIP) and custom ICC profiles SpyderPrint generates for a pair of HP Designjets that I use. I have always been a computer "geek" since 1984 and prefer SpyderPrint over external RIP processors for my small shop use. Listed below are some of my random thoughts on RIP use.

Maybe Gordo can correct me, but RIPs allow the use Adobe Postscript, HP's GL/2, lower quality Printer Control Language (PCL), or other software publisher's proprietary print control languages to enable faster and/or better image processing between a PC/laptop that is directly or remotely connected to a printer. Some external RIPs can handle multiple users and multiple printers image processing at the same time.

External RIP devices were introduced many years a go as a way to allow multiple PCs to connect via a network to the printer(s) and allow the external RIP to:
1.) spool the PC image in a printer queue(s) for better and faster print job management,
2.) free the user's PC/laptop from being slowed down by the CPU converting the raster image to a proprietary printer format,
3.) *possibly* improve the overall image print quality when the proprietary printer control language uses custom settings to enhance printer output.

Please note that external RIPs assume the printer is in perfect synch with OEM specs and customizing the external RIP software for slight color variations or changes may not be possible (ie changing printer ink to a different manufacturer).

In conclusion, the main advantages for me using a SpyderPrint software RIP and not a hardware RIP are:
1.) print quality is the same or better than external RIPs (ie Designjet GL/2 card inserts)
2.) lower overall cost for a quality software RIP for my medium quality printers when compared to on-going purchase and subscription prices for external RIP hardware/software,
3.) SpyderPrint software can easily be customized when I choose with unique ICC profiles generated for each printer. However, this takes much additional time to scan an calibrate hundreds of printed calibration colors
4.) SpyderPrint is indirectly owned by established parent company Pantone which still allows updates to new SpyderPrint printer profiles
5.) SpyderPrint updates are easy software downloads while some external RIPs cannot be updated, may require expensive update subscriptions or have hardware that has to be "traded-in" for an OEM upgrade.

The SpyderPrint disadvantages are:
1.) Printer spot color calibration for ICC profiles can be very slow and may have to be redone whenever a print cartridge is changed or a printer sits unused for several weeks or more
2.) Some Postscript colors show color shifts when a PS doc is later printed on a SpyderPrint RIP
3.) Since the SpyderPrint PC/laptop is doing all of the graphics conversion to a printer control language, this may greatly slow or tie up a user's PC until the print job is completed.

Regards, Steve
former International Paper employee at R&D facility

I agree that it takes quite some time calibrating for different papers and inks, but wouldn't that still be an issue even with a 3rd party RIP?

I can't really see any reason, other than press simulation, for having screening introduced into your prints.

 

[easiprint]

I agree with kdw75. We have an Epson 7600 without a rip. When we bought the printer, we were told without a rip we would not be able to print pdf's, and colours would all be wrong, but I think it depends on your needs. We print from pdf's all day long with no problems. Obviously we have rips with our Xerox boxes, and the colour adjustments they give you there are vital, but our Epson spends most of it's time printing banners and posters for school fetes and carnivals, and those type of customers are not going to require such exact colour controls. If we were printing photographers canvases it might be different, but for our type of work, a rip is just not needed.