What to get after Xerox Versant 3100, what is in same class or a bit better?

[amatijevic]

Helo all, this is my first post.
I need opinion and advices from experienced players and reading the posts, knowledge is great here .
I work in company that has 2 offset machines for serious quantities but everything else is going on Digital. Its not very large amount, i think its about 200k monthly tops. Business cards, brochures, catalogs, NCR sets, envelopes, books and similar classic stuff.

We have Versant 3100 with Plockmatic, but we will have to get Ricoh, Konica or Canon because Xerox is going really slow from 2019, we cant even get spare parts so fast as before, and a lot less service guys. We are leasing the machines so thats gonna go this way also.
We use plockomatic on daily basis, so finishing option is a must. Its mostly SRA3, sometimes long sheets 66x33... Ofcouse we also need great color quality, no lines or heating drafts when printing one tone over complete sheet. The quality must be top, almost like offset.
What do you think is ok replacement, we were looking at Ricoh C7200sx, Ricoh C5210s, Konica AccurioPress C14000/12000, also gona look at Canon but theyre representative is gona come next week. Its gona be leasing option again.

Any advices, or strong recomendation for some model out of this 3 companies? Just to repeat again, it must be Ricoh, Konica or Canon because we have a good support in our area for them.

Thank you in advance for your opinion!

 

[Shawnd]

I am sure things are similar in the Netherlands to here in the States, ask for references to other shops of the same size running Ricoh, Konica or Canon in the area and talk to them about how the service is currently and has been, including getting supplies. That would be my first step, as you know service can make or break you, can't make money if you are down. Most of the boxes these days are pretty close but service for them can be the dealbreaker.

With Ricoh (not sure about KM or Canon) here in the states they have the TCRU program where they will train YOU to fix the day to day issues with the machine and will stock parts onsite, this was a game changer for us coming from Xerox and helps with our uptime tremendously.

As for the model I wouldn't go below the 7200 with Ricoh, the double door design makes working on it much easier, its a great box with auto registration and can also print envelopes in short batches, along with the 5th color if you have the market for that.

 

[kslight]

I love our Ricoh 7210, we installed almost a year ago. Just clocked over a million (mostly 13x19) on it, no major issues / been happy with service and such so far. I opted for an offline duplo finisher instead of the inline Plockmatic, and I do not regret that decision at all. Came from a Konica before that, and Xerox before that.

If you are consistently running 200k 13x19 per month, and don’t care about the 5th color, it may be wiser to consider the Ricoh 9200.

 

[SoggyWinter]

V3100 here. Same issues with parts and staffing from Xerox. Probably going to Ricoh 7200 or 9200.

 

[amatijevic]

I am sure things are similar in the Netherlands to here in the States, ask for references to other shops of the same size running Ricoh, Konica or Canon in the area and talk to them about how the service is currently and has been, including getting supplies. That would be my first step, as you know service can make or break you, can't make money if you are down. Most of the boxes these days are pretty close but service for them can be the dealbreaker.

With Ricoh (not sure about KM or Canon) here in the states they have the TCRU program where they will train YOU to fix the day to day issues with the machine and will stock parts onsite, this was a game changer for us coming from Xerox and helps with our uptime tremendously.

As for the model I wouldn't go below the 7200 with Ricoh, the double door design makes working on it much easier, its a great box with auto registration and can also print envelopes in short batches, along with the 5th color if you have the market for that.

Yes you are right, we are gonna make sure to have service always available and on time. We have a big issue with ordering drums, cartridges and similiar...sometimes a week long. Thats step one, service.
I agree, we are also a bit close to Ricoh7200 for now. You are happy with print? Does it make a good clean one color tone? You know what i mean, dirty tones on which digital has common issue

 

[Make_It_So]

Please search for posts relating to the Konica c14000 on this forum. I wish I could recommend it, but I cannot.

 

[namelessentity]

Canon/Oce has a headquarters in Venlo which might be a selling point for service and parts availability.

I wouldn't go with in-line finishing, I'd get an offline machine that you can continue to use no matter what printer you use. An offline booklet maker will last you several generations of printers.

 

[amatijevic]

Thanks for advices, it means a lot! Anyone got some good experience with Canon machines?

 

[Shawnd]

Yes you are right, we are gonna make sure to have service always available and on time. We have a big issue with ordering drums, cartridges and similiar...sometimes a week long. Thats step one, service.
I agree, we are also a bit close to Ricoh7200 for now. You are happy with print? Does it make a good clean one color tone? You know what i mean, dirty tones on which digital has common issue

As long as your not picky about solid blues it does fine The 7200 does a decent job with solids as long as proper maintenance is done on the machine, this again comes back to service. I always run two machines, I have the 7100 for a backup which comes in handy. I would go to the local demo room and run off some sample prints on the 7200 and see what you think.

 

[kdw75]

Yes you are right, we are gonna make sure to have service always available and on time. We have a big issue with ordering drums, cartridges and similiar...sometimes a week long. Thats step one, service.
I agree, we are also a bit close to Ricoh7200 for now. You are happy with print? Does it make a good clean one color tone? You know what i mean, dirty tones on which digital has common issue

The screens are cleaner than our V2100 ever were. The 7210x is a fantastic machine. It is a little slower than the V3100, but you more than make up for it by not having to calibrate, tweak position on the sheet, and wait for service. Another printer in town got the Iridesse and even it doesn't print as clean of screens as our Ricohs.

 

[richsweeney]

We have a v180 from 06.2018 and just purchased a c4080 in 10.22. No 1 gripe is 15 minutes (or longer) of voice mail hell (repeatedly having to supply SN and name, phone number) with xerox to call service, vs 0 to 15 seconds on the Konica. Sometimes I get a call from a konica rep asking if I need help, because the machine itself called in a service call.
The v180 does print envelopes very well without having to open the flaps, and no wrinkles. The konica has some kind of special registration device that only requires (4) button pushes to give you perfect 2 sided paper registration for a drawer and that paper. Last June/July I had to spend about $5k for XEROX toner out of pocket, that most likley will not be reimbursed for. Print quality, is better on the Konica, screens nearly match our 4c offset press. However our clients do not notice the difference between the 2 machines.

 

[kslight]

We have a v180 from 06.2018 and just purchased a c4080 in 10.22. No 1 gripe is 15 minutes (or longer) of voice mail hell (repeatedly having to supply SN and name, phone number) with xerox to call service, vs 0 to 15 seconds on the Konica. Sometimes I get a call from a konica rep asking if I need help, because the machine itself called in a service call.
The v180 does print envelopes very well without having to open the flaps, and no wrinkles. The konica has some kind of special registration device that only requires (4) button pushes to give you perfect 2 sided paper registration for a drawer and that paper. Last June/July I had to spend about $5k for XEROX toner out of pocket, that most likley will not be reimbursed for. Print quality, is better on the Konica, screens nearly match our 4c offset press. However our clients do not notice the difference between the 2 machines.

Oh I forgot about the Xerox service call hoops. This was in the US even. For years you used to be able to place a service call online, easy. At some point they had decided to no longer allow that for our machines, we had to phone support… Then they closed the Texas call center and routed all calls to Guatemala and though they couldn’t actually provide technical assistance on the production level machines, they would make you sit there and outline all the steps you have already tried while they read off a list in their book before they would page a technician.

Towards the end of 2021 and beginning of 2022 with our Konica machine (now gone), we had to buy thousands of dollars in toner off eBay to keep it running.

 

[pippip]

In all my years with Xerox, DC3535, DC242 and now V80 i've never been had a problem with call services in Ireland. Generally straight through in seconds, give serial and basic description of problem and they just give me confirmation number. Sometimes get a call back from engineer scheduler to confirm when they'll be out, or they just arrive. I've never had them try and diagnose anything over the phone, I'd never have time for that.

Luckily supply issues didn't hit Ireland too bad, maybe a few days wait on a couple of occasions.

 

[amatijevic]

Thank you all for your answers, looks like Ricoh should be good choice, too bad there is not much information on Canon machines. Its a great brand, i will look into what they offer also and try to get some info on them too. If anyone got some more info it will be appreciated!!!