What way to configure new 5000AP

[che.c]

I know I started a thread a while back, all excited about the 700 that was coming my way. However, the salesmen have been back with an offer not to be refused. A 5000AP and XMPie. My boss has been talking to them for the past few weeks, I was called in today to nail down the final spec of the machine, and other miscellania - I wanted to get some advice from those of you running machines of this grade (or better).

At the min the spec stands as -

• 5000AP standard model (trying to get Extra High Cap Stacker.. not interested in finishers, it's all done offline)

• Fiery RIP with XMPie and Profiling Software (including an as yet unspecified Densitometer/Spectrophotometer - I want a spectro...)

• As much training as I want on all the hardware/software.

• FTR for the other machine that we're keeping.

Now I've mentioned to the rep that I wanna get a CED for the machine and he says he'll get one organised and go through it with me, sign it off and so on. We're going for a demo sometime soon and I'm gonna bring along a bunch of test files and a couple of jobs, print them on 260 and 250 we're currently running to compare directly.

Is there anything I'm missing here? My boss is more or less relying on me to check the machine over and make sure we get a good set-up.


I've got a couple of questions I'd really appreciate people's input on -

What's the colour like between the Creo and the Fiery? I've read a bit about stochastic screening and Creo seems to have a speshul one. I'm thinking I'd probably be running the press in 200 rotated line or stochastic, play it by ear on which one looks better. Info on the different screens would be good in general. The fiery would be good though because I can use both machines from CWS and sit my lazy ass at one screen.

Is a spectro a lot better than a densitometer? I have the impression that spectros give a lot more accurate colour calibration (due to them measuring wavelengths and not density) so I might dig my heels in on that one a bit if they try and fob us off with a densitometer.

What about XMPie? I'm gonna research that a bit over the next while, but are there any deals or add-ons I want to try to get them to include with the software? Anybody using it out there?

Fuser Oil. Fuser Streaking. Lamination. I've been assured that you can tweak the oil levels anywhere between glossy as a glossy thing and so dry the print doesn't adhere properly, so that you can always get a nice print out of it. It's just a case of setting it up right and balancing it properly. Anyone got experience with these issues and resolving them? Or "haven't experienced them at all, it's been perfect from day one!"?

Registration Seen a couple of threads there about FTB reg problems. People seeing this much? Any resolution? I get the impression that this is a relatively rare problem.



Well thanks for reading, any and all info is much appreciated.

 

[mikeatlbc]

Is a spectro a lot better than a densitometer? I have the impression that spectros give a lot more accurate colour calibration (due to them measuring wavelengths and not density) so I might dig my heels in on that one a bit if they try and fob us off with a densitometer.


YES!!! Go with the Spectro all the way!

 

[SteveL]

If you're getting the EFI Profiler, it comes with a spectro.
The difference in colour between the Creo and a Fiery are primarily down to the different default settings in the colour workflow, though people should be setting the rips up for their workflow and not leaving them at their default seettings anyway. The colours on both machines can be made very similar, especially if you are going to use the EFI profiler.

 

[diamondian]

I currently run a 5000 with the Creo and find it fantastic.... The options of colour manipulation are immense, so no problem in matching...

 

[Craig]

I have an 8000AP, with the EX8000 Fiery and love it. I have had several other Fiery's on Canon boxes and decided what Creo had to offer wasn't worth the change.

Get the Graphic Arts Package Premium Edition with Impose and Compose dongles as well as the Spectrophotometer.

Unless you are going to be doing high level VDP then you could save LOTS of money by scrapping XMpie and going with Fusion Pro desktop. Could always get XMpie later.

Get the SFM for a total of 4 paper decks you won't regret it.

The HCS is awesome, and a must have if you get into long runs and want to leave it unattended. (All our finishing is off line as well.)

As for the fuser oil streaking. In our 1.8MM prints it has NEVER even been noticed UNLESS the fuser roller and oiler are ready to be changed. Believe me I had a CLC4000 that streaked 5K prints after a new set of rollers, so I know a little something about it.

Lamination - there is a guy on the post-press side called Bondmaster who could answer that one better. We do not laminate at this point, but I have been told that with the correct film there is no problems.

Registration FTB is less than 0.5mm on my 8000AP, I would assume the 5000AP would be the same. There are excellent adjustments in the GUI on the box for registration adjustments as well as in the Fiery driver. Between the 2 of them you should have no problem dialing it in to as close to perfect as you will ever see on a digital device.

A few words of advice. Make room for parts.... Lots of parts. I have on my floor 70% of all the parts required for almost any service call. The only part that had to be brought in was an entire fuser unit (not just the rollers and crap, but the whole thing, almost 200lbs).
Get to know your tech. make sure he understands what your expectations are and what types of substrates you will be running. When you are going over the CED make sure everyone signs the back, that way you are all on the same page with what the 5000AP will do. Take advantage of your Color Specialist, they know their stuff and can help you out a lot. Don't run cheap paper! I have found 2 brands that work the best when it comes to Coated, New Page Futura and Xerox. Others have caused the fuser to fail prematurely do to the sheet sucking up too much oil.

Good Luck, and Have Fun!!!!

 

[che.c]

Thanks for the replies, I think I'm gonna go for the Fiery and make sure that I get the spectro with it. The general noise I hear is that the Creo's colour rocks, but then again using bustled Fiery's at the min and the customers are happy so I'll probably stick with what I know. Less downtime caused by me alternately scratching my noggin and swearing vehemently.

As for XMPie, it's sorta worked into the deal, I don't think we'd neccesarily save money by scrapping it, but I'm gonna secure some serious training on that software for myself if we get it, looks like it could quite easily be a headpickler, but very powerful if you know how to use it.

Anyone running an external Fiery be able to answer this question? Can you specify mixed media settings so that some pages are forced b&w, some colour? Instead of the printer having to detect it - this has caused big delays and a lot of irritation having to manually grayscale pages before.

I'm going to try and get something along the lines of "the output can be laminated" in the CED. We run Xerox paper almost exclusively, with a little bit of digital compat 120gsm bond for l'heads, and some 240gsm Conqueror fancy textured paper. Also the odd bit of GFS specialty media.

Graphic Arts Premium Edition? What's that add to the basic set-up? I've got an impose dongle already, is compose really worth having as well? I do most of my imposition in ID - it's generally quicker and more fool proof (given the wide range of files we get).

I think the EHCS is the one to go for, extra input trays don't seem to be worth the extra space. Thanks for the tip on clearing the floorspace for parts - will talk to my engineer and organise something.

Another thing though, our floor ain't level. Not even close to it (read: painted concrete). I'd be pretty keen to get a bit of level floor laid for the 5000 to sit on, as well as some modest climate control (de/humidifer and heater hooked up to sensors, probably Heath Robinson it myself). Views? Worth doing?