what works for my needs

[DannyB]

Hey guys im new to the press forums but i need help figuring out what press can fit my needs. I am currently an operator on a indigo 7500. personally i love the indigo but my higher ups dont like the price and have grown tired of dealing with the business aspect. So for future growth they are looking to other companies. The problem is getting quality and longevity to match indigo. We print school yearbooks and for about 4 months out of the year we do about 1.5 million impressions a week off our one indigo. what would you recommend that can handle that work load and maintain quality.

 

[AP90]

with that volume I'm guessing your going to be moving into a roll fed system if switching manufacturers. We have a Xerox 1000i and if we maxed it out for a week, assuming 24/7 running with absolutely 0 stops, you could get 252,000 11x17 4/4 sheets through it. That's going to be far from your 1.5 million impression mark. I don't even think the iGen 150 can pump out that many impressions.

 

[DJimenez]

HP is really your best option. We started with 3 Xerox iGen 3, then got 3 HP Indigo 5500, then the next year we got 17 Indigo 5500 to keep up and eventually 4 roll fed HP7250 (they print 900 feet a min). This was for year books and photobooks all print-on-demand. PM me for more info.

Good luck!

 

[DannyB]

Does anyone here have experience with the canon c10000 we are supposed to be looking at one next week. They are boasting some impressive capabilities.

 

[AP90]

Does anyone here have experience with the canon c10000 we are supposed to be looking at one next week. They are boasting some impressive capabilities.

Are you guys planning on getting a few of these? Because a machine that runs 100 ppm will not be enough to keep up with your volume. It simply won't be able to do the output. And if your looking at getting 3 of them to handle it, Id guess your lease and everything will be more than your current Indigo. I know from when we looked at the machines that the Indigo and Xerox 1000i were comparable in lease price. The difference came in clicks and maintenance. Not to mention the sheer volume that these machines will be used for. The duty cycle on a X1000i is approx 2 million. That is "supposed" to mean impressions between service visits. Let me tell you that number is garbage. If you have good techs then you'll be able to run them hard but you'll still need to have the techs in, especially beating up these machines with that volume.

 

[DannyB]

Are you guys planning on getting a few of these? Because a machine that runs 100 ppm will not be enough to keep up with your volume. It simply won't be able to do the output. And if your looking at getting 3 of them to handle it, Id guess your lease and everything will be more than your current Indigo. I know from when we looked at the machines that the Indigo and Xerox 1000i were comparable in lease price. The difference came in clicks and maintenance. Not to mention the sheer volume that these machines will be used for. The duty cycle on a X1000i is approx 2 million. That is "supposed" to mean impressions between service visits. Let me tell you that number is garbage. If you have good techs then you'll be able to run them hard but you'll still need to have the techs in, especially beating up these machines with that volume.

Yes the idea is that for the price of a 7800 we could get multiple machines from another vendor clicks and maintenance would be the big thing for us as our company is a debt free company and would be buying the machines outright. The thing is right now we only have one digital machine that can do quality good enough for our books and if it goes down we are in trouble. but at the same time we only run like that for four months so if we buy a second indigo we wont have the work to keep it profitable the other 8 months out of the year. so my uppers want to try getting multiple cheaper machines that way if one goes down which it will because all digital machines go down eventually. We will have other ones to fall back on but at the same time wont break the bank during our down time.

 

[AP90]

Yes the idea is that for the price of a 7800 we could get multiple machines from another vendor clicks and maintenance would be the big thing for us as our company is a debt free company and would be buying the machines outright. The thing is right now we only have one digital machine that can do quality good enough for our books and if it goes down we are in trouble. but at the same time we only run like that for four months so if we buy a second indigo we wont have the work to keep it profitable the other 8 months out of the year. so my uppers want to try getting multiple cheaper machines that way if one goes down which it will because all digital machines go down eventually. We will have other ones to fall back on but at the same time wont break the bank during our down time.

Well if you are looking at outright buying a machine, I'm guessing a canon 10000 will run you in the neighborhood of +/- $300,000 each. If your looking for the same output, I think the Xerox Versant 2100's are +/- $150,000 each and run at the same output speed of the Canon. Haven't seen it for myself but I hear the Xerox V2100 has excellent quality.

 

[DannyB]

Well if you are looking at outright buying a machine, I'm guessing a canon 10000 will run you in the neighborhood of +/- $300,000 each. If your looking for the same output, I think the Xerox Versant 2100's are +/- $150,000 each and run at the same output speed of the Canon. Haven't seen it for myself but I hear the Xerox V2100 has excellent quality.

we have two J75s and when we originally got them we had hopes of putting books on them but the quality just is not there. so unless the quality on the V2100 is leaps ahead of the j75 it just wont be worth it. we also have a few 550s the J75 and 550s are great for envelope and letter printing. which we do a lot of. And originally xerox was in love with us because of the clicks we were putting on there machine but it did not take long for that to change. Eventually they started trying to jack up the click charge because they were losing money hand over fist between consumables and maintenance calls so that makes us weary of xerox.

 

[DJimenez]

What is your binding method to make these into books? I have had a lot of problems with Xerox's fuser oils when trying to perfect bind. Pages would fall out because the oils would not let the EVA or PUR glue adhere to the paper. Also Xerox really doesn't have the speed or quality to match the HP's.

 

[DannyB]

What is your binding method to make these into books? I have had a lot of problems with Xerox's fuser oils when trying to perfect bind. Pages would fall out because the oils would not let the EVA or PUR glue adhere to the paper. Also Xerox really doesn't have the speed or quality to match the HP's.

I dont know if you got the email i sent you but i actually covered that in it. We outsource our PB and HB books. and we use a horizon saddle stitcher for our softbacks.

 

[PrintIT]

What is your binding method to make these into books? I have had a lot of problems with Xerox's fuser oils when trying to perfect bind. Pages would fall out because the oils would not let the EVA or PUR glue adhere to the paper. Also Xerox really doesn't have the speed or quality to match the HP's.

Are they still using fuser oil in the new Igens? There's no fuser oil in our 1000's, and we do perfect bound books all the time with no problems.

 

[DannyB]

I keep seeing people talk about the 1000s what is the price range on one of those. And also does anyone have experience with the rialto 900 its the only way we can go to roll fed because we dont have any equipment to do roll to roll.

 

[AP90]

I keep seeing people talk about the 1000s what is the price range on one of those. And also does anyone have experience with the rialto 900 its the only way we can go to roll fed because we dont have any equipment to do roll to roll.

Price point on the 1000i I'm guessing is going to be in the neighborhood of $450k if you buy outright. Now I could be off by $75k each way but id give that a good reference point.

 

[DannyB]

Price point on the 1000i I'm guessing is going to be in the neighborhood of $450k if you buy outright. Now I could be off by $75k each way but id give that a good reference point.

How would you rank the quality on the 1000i to say a indigo 7500. Because as i posted earlier we have a couple J75s and the quality just is not consistent enough to do anything more than flyers and order envelopes.

 

[DJimenez]

I dont know if you got the email i sent you but i actually covered that in it. We outsource our PB and HB books. and we use a horizon saddle stitcher for our softbacks.

No sorry I didn't get that.

 

[AP90]

How would you rank the quality on the 1000i to say a indigo 7500. Because as i posted earlier we have a couple J75s and the quality just is not consistent enough to do anything more than flyers and order envelopes.

I would say that quality is pretty much the same between the 2. We got samples from both companies when we were looking at a machine and they both put out great looking products. The HP has a more matt look to it so it is more "offset looking" but other than that everything for both was great. Couldn't tell a difference between the gloss stocks, which I'm assuming your going to be running for the yearbooks. Its definitely worth looking into.

 

[DJimenez]

I used the 1000i for photobooks and the quality is comparable to the 7500.

 

[DJimenez]

Are they still using fuser oil in the new Igens? There's no fuser oil in our 1000's, and we do perfect bound books all the time with no problems.

Yes they still use fuser fluid 2. Its better then the old fuser fluid 1.

 

[DannyB]

So it seems yearbooks are just a oddity. To get the quality I want I have to spend more than the average but at the same time yearbooks are not a year round business which makes it hard to justify that kind of spending. Everything we have looked at is either expensive and more than we need. Or not good enough to meet our needs. Xerox Canon and KM don't have any machines that can handle the work load and HP is to expensive to invest in heavily.

 

[D Ink Man]

I guess the dinosaur known as an offset lithographic printing press is out of the question. Too prehistoric, eh?

D