Which RIP do I need?

[pacart]

We are looking at buying either a Xerox 700 or a KM 6501. We understand the difference in the machines.

Where we are stuck is do we need to extend the extra cash to purchase an external RIP or will the internal Fiery on either machine be enough - we really don't understand what you are gaining for all that extra money.

We are a commercial printer, not an office, so we will be running commercial print jobs on it.

Could someone explain pros and cons like im an infant, thanks.

Josh

 

[X33]

This is something I posted before :

today, there's no longer a huge gap between Fiery and CREO servers, and Splash and FreeFlow. most people select one or other based on what their experience has been, like Craig, who has worked with Fierys 9 years and wants to stay with it.

what workflow do you currently have with your offset presses? If you have a Prinergy or Brisque workflow, you may want to stay with a CREO, but a Fiery can do it too.

The Fiery EX700 (external) has over the Fiery bustled the following (and maybe some more) :
1. More hardware : RAM, Processor, HDD; this transalates into more productivity
2. EFI Impose : imposition tools (PC and MAC)
3. Hot Folders : to automate the printing process
4. Understands VDP languages : PS, PPML, VPS
5. Optional : EFI Profile, spectrophotometer and profiler software, highly recommended
6. Optional : Graphic Arts Package, there are some nice screening and proofing features, take a look at them, if need them, get them.

The CREO CX700, also has :
1. More hardware
2. Imposition tools (RIP based)
3. Hot Folders
4. Understands VDP languages : PS, PPML, VPS
5. Advanced Color Tools pkg : spectrophotometer and profiler software, highly recommended
6. Productivity pkg : to increase the performance of VDP applications

there are many more features on both of them, like Spot Color, Calibration tools, preflight, previews, composition, etc.

 

[Craig]

The largest, fastest, with the most crap you can afford! If you don't get it now you will be wishing you did later.

 

[billyinlasvegas]

I think it all comes down to your operator, I've been using Fiery for years an I've found that when introducing a new operator to a RIP, Fiery is a little easier to use. Some will argue that Creo is better and more powerful but I've found that Xerox (or Creo) seems to not be pushing the sale of Creo RIPS as much.

I'm a big believer in Fiery and in fact I have an iGen4 being delivered in a few weeks with a Fiery RIP.

But if you're using Creo products for your pre-press or to drive any other device I'd say stick to Creo.

 

[GusG]

No calibration on the internal Fiery???

No calibration on the internal Fiery???

5. Optional : EFI Profile, spectrophotometer and profiler software, highly recommended

I'm curious about this too, but for a DC2xx. Is it not possible to calibrate the internal Fiery with a spectrophotometer or a densitometer? If not, how does one go about calibration?

 

[Ecowally]

What rip do you need...

What rip do you need...

Meet with Randy Watson of EFI, Xerox or the Xerox Agent can setup up the meeting. Randy is not in sales. He's up in your area twice a month. Excellent resource...

fyi
The embedded/bustled EFI x700 rip seems to have a very generic color table, it's a 1st rev.. It will improve over time..

good luck

 

[CSimpson]

4. Understands VDP languages : PS, PPML, VPS

I am 99.9% sure that Fiery does not support VPS. Creo's advantage is the VPS format Fiery's advantage is Freeform.

I have experience with both rips and I would base my decision on the VDP cababilities of the rips. I would choose the Creo if I were do VDP with software such as Darwin or XMPie because of VPS. I would choose Fiery if I wanted simple VDP without purchasing any added software simply because of Freeform. I would avoid the Freeflow rip because I would not want to build my business/workflow around a one vendor rip.

 

[X33]

I'm curious about this too, but for a DC2xx. Is it not possible to calibrate the internal Fiery with a spectrophotometer or a densitometer? If not, how does one go about calibration?

Yes, any internal (bustled) Fiery can be calibrated with an external device (Spectrophotometer or Densitometer).

Remember that you need to install Fiery Command Workstation on your PC/MAC, and the external device goes connected to that PC/MAC.

If you don't have an external device, you can calibrate with ColorCal (usually known as Kodak Color Strip) using the machine's scanner. I personally don't like the calibration made with ColorCal.

 

[X33]

I am 99.9% sure that Fiery does not support VPS. Creo's advantage is the VPS format Fiery's advantage is Freeform.

I'm 100% that the Fiery EX700 for the Xerox 700 supports VPS. I have worked with clients using XMPie and DARWIN sending VPS to the Fiery EX700.

Check Page 10 of the "Xerox EX Print Server, Powered by Fiery® - Variable Data Printing User's Guide"

http://download.support.xerox.com/pub/docs/700_DCP/userdocs/any-os/en/PrintVariableData.pdf

http://www.support.xerox.com/go/res...ry=USA&prodName=Xerox 700 Digital Color Press

 

[pacart]

looks like we going to go with the X700 and the Creo. Fuji and Creo have come in real competitive with their pricing - so unless something goes horribly wrong - this is the route we are going to go. Of course if anyone has any last hour comments about our negotiations or freebies we might be able to get please chime in. Thanks

 

[UberTech]

The difference between the extrenal and internal RIPS on the konica come down to what you get bundled and finishing you want on your machine.

The IC-303\305 comes with hot folders and custom queues standard. You are not restricted with finishing options with this RIP.

The IC-408 is a business class rip so doesn't come with the bells and whistles and your can only have a FS-607 booklet maker finisher or exit tray.

The creo (IC-304) will also give you unlimited finishing. The creo comes with imposition, spectro, screen, keyboard and monitor.

Unless you had a VERY specific reason to go with a Fiery I would go with a Creo. The creo is very easy to use on the Konicas and comes with everything. The Fiery is very intricate and designed for someone who wants to screw every inch out of the machine at a cost.

You should try and impose something on each I think you will find the Creo really easy to use and your operators will find this also. Like I say the Fiery is a bit more hands on.

The only drawback for the creo is the lack of a Freeform options, so far.

The RIP is only part of it obviously. Do lots of samples particulary on heavy stocks with lots of high coverage (ie dozens of sheets). Work and turn your jobs and expect no more than 1mm skew or reg from any machine you test.

 

[Mike Strickler]

Which RIP do I need?

One thing to consider is that Fiery is integrated into the whole EFI universe of MIS systems, X-Flow, and other useful software, including Fiery XF (also known as Colorproof XF) which can drive and color-manage all your Fiery devices in the same RIP as your wide-format inkjets. XF doesn't do this with Creo RIPs. Consider the support situation as well.

Mike Strickler

 

[CSimpson]

I'm 100% that the Fiery EX700 for the Xerox 700 supports VPS. I have worked with clients using XMPie and DARWIN sending VPS to the Fiery EX700.

Check Page 10 of the "Xerox EX Print Server, Powered by Fiery® - Variable Data Printing User's Guide"

http://download.support.xerox.com/pub/docs/700_DCP/userdocs/any-os/en/PrintVariableData.pdf

Xerox 700 Digital Color Press User Documentation

I stand corrected...It is odd that Xerox doesn't include that as a VDP language on the brochure for the Fiery Rip on their website though, perhaps EFI should push them to do so.