Xerox 1000i Trail Edge Bleed (blurry print)

[joshlindsay]

We're on our second 1000i (first was replaced as colour was very inconsistent and eventually corrupted system boards) but are still not happy with output in particular what Xerox are calling trail edge bleed.

For example text with a 80/60% tint appear to come across as a gradient on the trail edge.
Below are links to a few pics and as you can see the dots start to taper off on the right hand side.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3002/Xerox1000i/2015-06-16%2010.57.53.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3002/Xerox1000i/2015-06-16%2010.58.06.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3002/Xerox1000i/2015-06-16%2010.58.19.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3002/Xerox1000i/2015-06-16%2010.58.53.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3002/Xerox1000i/2015-06-16%2010.59.06.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3002/Xerox1000i/2015-06-16%2010.59.21.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3002/Xerox1000i/2015-06-16%2010.59.35.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3002/Xerox1000i/2015-06-16%2011.00.02.jpg

It even seems to be happening on 100% Magenta https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3002/Xerox1000i/2015-06-16%2010.56.51.jpg

We've been told this is caused by speed these machines run at and 1000 users have had this for a while (apparently not this bad though).
We however upgraded from an 800 where we never notices this and would never sign up for a new piece of equipment which is a downgrade in quality.

Any who, we're pushing to get our machine downgraded to an 800i as that seems to be the best solution.

Anyone else noticed this problem on either a 1000 or 1000i?

 

[kdw75]

I have noticed that to a lesser degree on our Versant 2100. It isn't as severe as yours, but I can see it.

Makes me wonder how the iGens running at 150ppm look.

 

[joshlindsay]

Interestingly when our Versant was installed I immediately noticed it (and disliked the Versant) as we still had our 800. Now we've got the 1000i the Versant looks far superior.

Yeah would love to see someone with an iGen 150 upload a sample.

 

[Digital print fan]

Hi Josh , have you tried going into the paper profile , and increasing the transfer rate ? Even if you go all the way to 200 . Also a increase in the fuser temp might help .

 

[Craig]

So I just looked at a job we printed from the 1000 that had a lot of gray (K) text and 4 color gray text as well as green and orange text. I see nothing that comes close to what you have posted when looking through a loop.

 

[joshlindsay]

Hi Josh , have you tried going into the paper profile , and increasing the transfer rate ? Even if you go all the way to 200 . Also a increase in the fuser temp might help .

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll have a play around.
That could help us identify where it's going wrong but unfortunately not a long term solution as we're adjusting the transfer rate for most stocks to get nice solids.

 

[joshlindsay]

So I just looked at a job we printed from the 1000 that had a lot of gray (K) text and 4 color gray text as well as green and orange text. I see nothing that comes close to what you have posted when looking through a loop.

That's odd as I thought they were hardware wise the same machine.
We had our local tech/colour superstar in this morning running off a bunch of tests (Dot 200, Line 200 and various settings on and off) to send to Japan.

Are you able to upload a few snaps of what you're getting? I just had my phone camera zoomed in up against the loop.

This is what we were getting on our 800 at 60K https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3002/Xerox1000i/800%2060%25%20k.jpg

 

[Craig]

I will do that... what was exaggerating the blur? Was there a color combination that will show it better?

 

[joshlindsay]

60% K was actually the worst and can easily be seen with the naked eye.
You can download my test file here https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3002/Xerox1000i/Text%20Test%20-%20Trail%20Edge.pdf

 

[Craig]

See if this works. It doesn't help when I shake the camera either!!

 

[Craig]

Hey Josh - For shits and giggles, what line screen are you using and did you calibrate to that screen? Also in the RIP under image tab have you have played with text/graphics enhancement or text/graphics quality settings?

 

[joshlindsay]

See if this works. It doesn't help when I shake the camera either!! View attachment 4911

It's tricky to see on that. Is the bottom of the image the trail edge?

As you can see in the following pic (not through a loop just zoomed in) the fade is easily noticeable on right hand side on 1000i print.
The other 2 were old jobs run on our 800. Looks like quite a different dot but both were set by default to run a 200 dot.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3002/Xerox1000i/1000i-vs-800-comp.jpg

 

[joshlindsay]

Hey Josh - For shits and giggles, what line screen are you using and did you calibrate to that screen? Also in the RIP under image tab have you have played with text/graphics enhancement or text/graphics quality settings?

We had a play with all those settings yesterday and tried 200 dot and line. Ran my test sheet out swapping out each of the text/graphics enhancement or text/graphics quality settings.
Calibrated for 200 dot then ran all those samples and then recalibrated for 200 line and ran those samples. They are the files that are being sent to Japan.
Noticeable on all variations which was good (and bad I suppose).

 

[Craig]

When I get in in the morning I will try a photo without a loop and send it.

 

[AP90]

So all of this has me a bit leary on signing for a 1000i now. I had some samples ran, and they looked good, but now I'm wondering if they maybe ran it on an old 1000, or just ran optimized it so that they could take care of the trail edge bleed. Think I should hold off for now? I definitely need something with the robustness and output of the 1000, but you guys have me a bit worried.

 

[PrintIT]

I just ran that test on both our 1000's and not seeing anything like that on either. One machine has the Clear option, and one machine is just 4 color, but neither has that dropoff.
Tested on 100# gloss text - is some stock worse than others for you?

 

[kdw75]

So all of this has me a bit leary on signing for a 1000i now. I had some samples ran, and they looked good, but now I'm wondering if they maybe ran it on an old 1000, or just ran optimized it so that they could take care of the trail edge bleed. Think I should hold off for now? I definitely need something with the robustness and output of the 1000, but you guys have me a bit worried.

I would take this opportunity to bring up the issue with your salesmen, and let him know that you won't put up with this ahead of time. Or you could always get the 800i, if that little extra bit of speed isn't necessary.

 

[AP90]

I would take this opportunity to bring up the issue with your salesmen, and let him know that you won't put up with this ahead of time. Or you could always get the 800i, if that little extra bit of speed isn't necessary.

I have already sent him a message about this. Waiting to hear back from him. And I have already looked into the 800i, and they said it is not available here in the US. It is only overseas.

 

[tiger_scout]

What weight and size is it happening on? Maybe try a different grain paper and SEF, LEF.

 

[joshlindsay]

We're seeing it on 150gsm-350gsm both SRA4 and SRA3. Changing the direction of the sheet just changes which edge the dot drop off appears on.

Apparently samples have been sent off to Japan so we'll see what happens. Right now our 2100 is processing 75% of work with jobs being rejected off the 1000i.