Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

[ian]

We are in the midst of upgrading our equipment and were wondering which machine to buy. Xerox keeps trying to push us the 5000 which now has an option for AP, and on the website I noticed the 700 which works without oil.

We currently have a 6060 and 240.

thanks
ian

 

[rcreveli]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

We are looking at Xerox for B&W and my rep said the 700 was built to compete directly with the Bizhub 6500. I don't know how that will influence your decision but found the information intriguing.

Ray

 

[BertThePrinter]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

The 5000 is more akin to your 6060 and the 700 is a sped up 240. Which machine do you think will pump out more work? The battlefield tank (the 5000) or the lightly armored Hummer (the 700). If I were facing an all nighter trying to get out 20,000+ copies I sure know which machine I would, and did, pick. Go with the 5000 or the 7000/8000, you will not regret it!
Bert

 

[doubting_thomas]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

With the 5000 you'll lose the speed you get from the 6060,
but you'll get the advantages of the 240 print engine, with
improvements. We went from a 2060 to the 5000 and I
couldn't be more pleased with the print quality form start
to finish on long runs. I'd rather have quality over speed.

The learning curve was very small for the upgrade, which
I think was a big advantage. It's a lot like the 2060, only
it works better, and I can keep parts on the floor here to
do some of my own service. I've never used, or demo'd
a 700, so I can't really speak about that machine.

Hope it helps.

 

[ian]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

Thank you for the input everyone...
We ran some samples on the 5000, the print quality was good but it had a couple of issues.
1. Oil differential which starts at 8" from the gripper
2. Fuser marks and streaks
The sales rep told us the samples were run on a client location where the machine wasnt serviced for 2 months and this was the caus of it. The cleaning web was out and he wound it back by hand.
I ran samples of the same files on the 242 and no problems at all except register bounces upto an 1/8" for duplex on coated stocks

Any input on this?? Does the overall quality come close or better to the 240?

thanks
ian

 

[Craig]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

The cleaning web was out and he wound it back by hand.

Sounds like they must pay for their parts! Why would someone do that and then wonder why the quality stinks :0

I would ask for a demo AFTER the press has a PM. Also I was at the Xerox site and it looks like they have a 5000AP now, might be worth a look

 

[BertThePrinter]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

concerning the 5000. The copies should be perfect. There is less than .5mm bounce on 2 sided copies. Are you dealing with an independent rep or Xerox direct. For $100,000, they should be putting on the "Dog and Pony show" for you. You need to see a detailed demo, in a show room, with a qualified presenter. The 5000 is a great machine. Your sales person should be fired. Go over his head, and I bet you will get a lot a** kissing. You sure can't buy any machine based on sample copies provided for you. Go see a real demo
Bert

 

[ian]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

I had more samples brought over today with disappointing results, fuser streaks, coarse gray and blue screens, toner not laying down smooth on the second side.. etc...
Maybe our expectation levels are too high!!!!
It seems the 242 is far superior in quality than the 5000.

ian

 

[Craig]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

I agree with Bert, you are getting samples from a less than perfect press. I have yet to get fuser streaks with our 8000AP, I know it has a different fuser than the 5000, but I have seen the samples from a 5000 at GraphExpo and there were NO streaks from it.

You need to get to a demo after the press has had a PM, and calibrated, who knows maybe that quality (lack of) is acceptable to that customer???

Your expectations should be nothing less than the quality you would expect your customer to see from your shop on any other press! When you are spending that kind of coin Xerox should be doing back flips for you, I know they did for me.

 

[Radibo]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

Hi! We have a Xerox 700 for a week, the printquality is extremely good, sharp printouts and the low-melt toner and not using any fuser-oil, the fast printingspeed 70p/min. the nummerous ways to print on a variety on papers are the main reasons why we have chosen for this printer. Consider the price of a 700 and a 5000, and you can easily put more 700's in your workflow against one 5000, your productivity increases and the double decurler makes your printouts / paper flattener then ever before.

One suggestions: Go to a XEROX showroom, bring some testfiles along and try it on a 700, a 5000 and a 8000 (I ALREADY KNOW WHICH ONE YOU CHOOSE!)

First do a calibration on all of the machines which you want to test and use the same rip-configurations (XEROX, CREO, OR FIERY) use the same profiles and put in the same paper in the tray (same paper and same size). Never let the sampledocuments of XEROX to be your printout-compare sheets: USE YOUR OWN DOCUMENTS.
Check if all the rips you use the same CMYK and RGB workflow uses (check the profiles and the printingraster: use 200C raster, not more ore less).

Edited by: Radibo on Jul 9, 2008 2:41 PM

 

[ian]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

Thank you for the input Radibo. How is the registration on the 700. We currently have a 242 but the registration is out to lunch.

amin

 

[Radibo]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

Registration is good, not excellent. We all use mechanical machines, friction, heat etc... It is not a conventional press, it's a printer, but the registrationmarks by double sided printing is good. All of the technicians use a laptop and software to get to a point of satisfaction, usually a difference per side of 1 mm. But when you open your 242, 252, 260 or 700 on the frontside, pull the tray out (the one with the fuserpart etc..) you see on the left the part of the layedge of your paper. You can manually / mechanically rotate this part, look at the screws above and below on top. Usually use one screw to get a quickly result, descrew - rotate, screw and test with one print (double-sided). But you have to do this again for the heaver paper (190 grams and above). 80, 90 100, 120, 135, 150, 160 and 170 grams will have the same result and uses the same layedge.

Notice that all of the mechanics uses the same restriction, this restriction is a area between the 1mm and 2mm per side. When you look at your double-sided print and you have a difference of 1mm per side, this means that the total difference between registration is 2mm and is acceptable for any mechanic: BUT NOT TO US - THE PRINTERS.

So uses the above to put your machine in a good and stable double-sided registration with marks. I have a rather poor difference between the 2-sides: less then 1mm total.

 

[Craig]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

2mm is huge to printers. Our old Canon was +or- 2mm per side:0 that makes for some fancy cutting!

 

[random]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

What is the speed of the 700 like? I hear it drops down to 15ppm for 300gsm 12x18 and the because of the short duplex it is very slow double sideing.

 

[ian]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

2mm is a lot for tollerance.. try running a business card 24up double sided with bleed and tight text and lets see if you client doesent return the order. We a minimum of 3-4 returns a week because of register. Our main business is offset and since we got into digital client expect offset quality and consistancy and of course perfect register!!!!!!
My line to clients is.. our 242 can print really nice.. as good as our press but the registration is out.

Ian

 

[X33]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

the Xerox 700 is not a faster DC240, it's a new model between the DC240 and the DC5000

1. 2400 x 2400 dpi, same as DC240 and DC5000
2. 700 uses EA Toner (offset like output); same as the DC240, vs fuser oil on the DC5000
3. +/- 1.00mm Front to Back registration; same as the DC5000, vs up to 3.0mm on the DC240

 

[random]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

How come the duplex speed is such a secret?

 

[Craig]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

No Secret, just look at the brochure. Duplex is more than likely half the speed of simplex.

Productivity/Print Speeds
· A4 / 8.5 x 11
- 70 ppm (64--176 gsm uncoated)
- 51 ppm (177--256 gsm uncoated)
(106--176 gsm coated)
- 35 ppm (257--300 gsm uncoated)
(177--300 gsm coated)

· A3 / 11 x 17
- 35 ppm (64--176 gsm uncoated)
- 25 ppm (177--256 gsm uncoated)
(106--176 gsm coated)
- 17 ppm (257--300 gsm uncoated)
(177--300 gsm coated)

· SRA3 / 12 x 18
- 31 ppm (64--176 gsm uncoated)
- 22 ppm (177--256 gsm uncoated)
(106--176 gsm coated)
- 15 ppm (257--300 gsm uncoated)
(177--300 gsm coated)

 

[ian]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

I wasnt aware that the DC252 registration tollerance was 3mm.. I was told its only 0.5mm by my sales rep. We are currently waiting for a specialist to respond back to us regarding the registration. Our normal rep told us it is supposed to be 1mm but our machine moves upto 3mm.

ian

 

[Craig]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

Were you supplied with a Customer Expectations Document (CED)? I am not sure if they have them for the smaller machines, but if they do make sure you get yours. It will have all the specs. on the machine and provide fuel for you to go back to your sales rep and say it is not operating up to Xerox's written standards in the CED.