Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

[BrentHals]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

The registration on these are typically 1.5mm in either direction, so that could mean over 2mm (xy) on 1 side, up to 4mm total movement comparing 2 sides.

There aren't registration tools on these smaller devices, unlike the DC500/7000/8000. If registration is that important (and it should be) than you aren't looking at the right piece of gear.

 

[ian]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

We currently have a Xerox DC6060 which has perfect register.. never a falter. Due to constant downtime and only 600dpi we wanted to get a backup machine so we chose the 242. I wasnt aware that the tollerance is so high. We are an offset shop and our clients all expect offset quality when it comes to digital. We manged to boost digital quality by getting the 242 but 15% of our jobs are rejected because of bad register. If I was aware of this problem earlier we would not have gotten the 242. Xerox failed to advise us of this and we dont have a spec sheet that specifies registration. Infact the brochures dont have any info on register tolerances.

We need some help and advice on how to cross this battle with Xerox and get the right equipment without burning any bridges

ian

 

[Craig]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

Have you had any conversations with Xerox sales regarding this? Maybe you could work something out by replacing the 6060 and 242 with a 7000AP or 8000AP.

I wouldn't say that Xerox failed to advise you regarding the registration, a typical salesperson will only talk about the "good" things. Unfortunately it is our responsibility to dig in and find out the "bad" things and make a decision on the best equipment. The 242 is not a "production" printer like your 6060, it's a high end office printer, that works fine for that environment. Obviously as printers (especially us with offsets) require tighter registration, you would hope that the salesperson would be sharp enough to say "hay this might not work for your jobs that require close registration".

Good Luck, just keep it civil with your conversations with Xerox, I would hope they would want to work with you.

 

[X33]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

Always ask your Xerox rep for the Customer Expectations Document - CED; it will have all the details on the equipment.

Even though the DC2xx family has a realtively higher margin of error for registration, it is still very good and is usually less than the specifications. Also, many issues can be avoided by the way the designers layout the applications, the way you duplex your jobs (put paper back in the tray) and especially, the quality of the paper.

Designing for offset is different than designing for digital. No machine is perfect.

http://www.xerox.com/digital-printi...tal-print-resources/creative-design/enus.html

Work with your Xerox Production Systems Analyst to find workarounds to any registration issues.

 

[ian]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

Buying digital equipment and understand it has been a expensive learning experience. I have contacted my sales rep as you requested and am waiting for him to get back to me on a solution. We looked at samples of the 5000 and 7000.. the biggest complaint we had was fuser steaks and downtime because of it.

Ian

 

[GordoMac]

Re: Xerox 700 or Docucolour 5000

This is a great discussion.

I wanted you to know that the technology in the 700 is not like the technology in the 240/250 or the 242/252/260.

It is basically the same technology that is in a 5000.

You won't be dissappointed with a 700.

Follow everyone's advice and get your local Xerox to print your own files on all the different models - you will choose the 700.

Also, go to any other copier manufacturer and test your files on the same type of equipment - you will choose the 700.

I see alot of discussion on registration.

The 700 is +- 1.5 mm.

The DC240/250 and 242/252/260 are +- 3mm.

There are CEDs available for all products.

Good luck.

Edited by: GordoMac on Aug 8, 2008 11:54 AM added info about registration.

 

[matnic]

Just found this forum, glad I did.

We are a small print shop with a Heidelberg MO 5 color offset, as well as a 2 color press. I was hired to run the mailroom 6 years ago, but am also trained as a Graphic Designer, so I know a few things (enough to get me into trouble!).

A few years ago, we bought a Xerox Docucolor 3535 for rush jobs and for variable data printing. We have outgrown it, and we bought a Prism to help take some of the burden off the 3535, BIG MISTAKE! Its better used as a boat anker!

Anyways, we are looking at trading in the 3535 for something faster and better. We are getting a 700 in a few weeks. Hope this isn't a turd like the Prism!

Anyway, those who have used a 700, what should I look for as benefits over the 3535? Also, can someone get me ACTUAL size measurements for the machine with a high-capacity large-format feeder, as well as the High-capacity stacker? Need to know that it will fit in our shop! I am just looking for educated opinions on the machine, especially compared to the 3535 or the 260 (our other option when we ordered the 700).

Thanks alot!
Mat

 

[Thomson Litho]

Matnic,

I have just found this forum.......i reckon by the date on your response, you will well and truely have been using the 700..............just wondering what you comments on it are?? Also, since you have it, you may well be able to answer your own questions about the sizes??

Allan

 

[matnic]

nope, don't have it yet. I think our local Xerox Service Tech (whom I come to know well after 4 years of service calls on our 3535!) said he is training on it around Sept. 17 for 2 days, and I think we should be getting delivery of the 700 around the end of Sept or first week of Oct.

 

[MacDaddy]

700 registration

700 registration

Straight from their brochure
Second, you get tight front-to-back registration
(to within +/- 1.0 mm), important for postcards,
business cards, catalogs, and all two-sided work.
A Contact Image Sensor detects the leading
edge of the page and adjusts for registration
(difficult jobs can have special operator
adjustments done at the User Interface). For what its worth
looking at both the 700 and konica-minolta 6500 or the 6501 coming
out soon. Had a rush job and my press was down went to my konica-minolta
demo center job was 5 11 x 17 with bleeds ran on 12 x 18 full coverage had to fold right in center
on 80lb hammermill gloss cover 1,000 of each took about 2 1/2 hours for each one.
Did duplex it did very well with registration. Print
quailty was good on the first two then it started to go a bit. The machine had not had
its pm for awhile. I don't understand why these places do not have their machines in tip top
shape at their own demo centers. The gradient on my back cover was not what I hoped streakey.
I hope it was do to the need of a pm. Going to look at the 700 with same files will see. I do have one last ?
the KM 6500 is 600 x 600 with 256 shades in 8 bit for the gradents. Xerox 700 is 2400 x 2400 but I have been told it only uses 2bits which I think it means the km turns on 8bits per sector and the Xerox turns on 2bits per sector so the difference in quailty is not viewable. Any thoughts I did look at a file printed on the KM 6500 and the Xerox 252 quailty looked just as good on both (my file). This is what KM says about it registration. Front and reverse sides are precisely matched to insure accurate alignment within 1mm for booklets or other duplex multi-page documents, with independent adjustments for transversal direction timing and image shift.

 

[random]

quailty was good on the first two then it started to go a bit.

What does that mean? Goes south? Goes north? lighter, darker, different color?

Showroom machines are always the last to get looked at. When we do a demo on a c6500 we would run a few hundred sheets first so the client will see how machine would print insitue not just turned on. This is probably not the case for your demo, you should get then to take you to a live site to see a machine that doesn't actually sit around all day.

The alignment is done by a ccd in the PF (pf-601) and the ADU so the engine knows where the edge of the sheet is all the time. The lead edge reg is done by a registration roller and sensors. The tempature of the reg roller is moniterd as like anything that gets hot it expands and timing is corrected for this.

 

[X33]

just to clarify on the Xerox 700, front to back registration is +/- 1.0mm ... it's in the Xerox CED.

the best thing, is that on this model you can asjust it if it goes off through the User Interface. NO NEED TO CALL FOR SERVICE, therefore, your unit is up and running in minutes vs hours. it's all about UPTIME !

the registration sensor technology on the Xerox 700 is the same as in the Xerox DocuColor 5000

 

[MacDaddy]

Color

Color

What does that mean? Goes south? Goes north? lighter, darker, different color?

Different color in same color box (had a light green box half started to look one green and the other half a different shade the black text in box started to look blue around the letters I'm almost certain it just needed a pm new devloper something. By the way today just got the quick printing October magazine the cover was done at a pip printer using two of their KM6500 duplexed with variable data on both sides. Looked great 43,000 of them wow I bet that took some time.

 

[Craig]

In regards to the Quick Printing Magazine cover, I am not saying this because I have bashed the 6500's, but to me it looks too flat, almost fake. The buildings vs the sky just look as if they were layered or something. If you compare the cover to one of the offset pages with comparable coverage, it looks waxie flat like crayons on coated paper. Other than that it was nice, I can say at least the toner didn't flake off like one of the other trade mags covers that were printed on the Nexpress 3000.

 

[random]

Ahem.....

the best thing, is that on this model you can asjust it if it goes off through the User Interface. NO NEED TO CALL FOR SERVICE, therefore, your unit is up and running in minutes vs hours. it's all about UPTIME !

You mean you haven't been able to do this before!?!? You need to check your compeditor advantage document before boasting about something other venders have had for years.

the registration sensor technology on the Xerox 700 is the same as in the Xerox DocuColor 5000

Keep that under your hat.

but to me it looks too flat, almost fake

No, it isn't oily and coverd in streaks.

Looked great 43,000 of them wow I bet that took some time.

3 days according to the article. One of my customers ran 70k over a week on one 65, wasn't vdp tho.

 

[MacDaddy]

Craig flat fake?

Craig flat fake?

Craig you don't even know how the picture was supposed to look. But what I can see and compare is the Creo ad on the inside looks great and the Heidelberg ad on the back is all over the place just got the heidelberg news magazine ad looks just as good as theirs. Buy the way the cover was offline uvcoated. And if you want to be honest look at the 4over ad inside the magazine and the 4over ad on inside of back cover printed on the KM that shows it did a good job. I'm not saying the X 700 might not be better have not got a look at it yet, I'm just saying the KM did a good job.

 

[Thomson Litho]

Alright guys, i replied to a question on another thread about performance management of machines where i suggested the OEE metric, overall equipment effectiveness, do any of you know what these machines or other machines, preferably webs scored????? or any other machines scored, thanks

 

[ian]

Ccd

Ccd

How do I get a copy of the CCD, the sales rep doesent have one

ian

 

[Craig]

I hate to say but the sales rep is who I got mine from. Just tell them no deal unless you get a CED first.

 

[Craig]

Craig you don't even know how the picture was supposed to look. But what I can see and compare is the Creo ad on the inside looks great and the Heidelberg ad on the back is all over the place just got the heidelberg news magazine ad looks just as good as theirs. Buy the way the cover was offline uvcoated. And if you want to be honest look at the 4over ad inside the magazine and the 4over ad on inside of back cover printed on the KM that shows it did a good job. I'm not saying the X 700 might not be better have not got a look at it yet, I'm just saying the KM did a good job.

If you have a copy of the September issue of American Printer there is an ad for 4over on page 7, compare that to the ad on the inside back cover of the Quick Printing that was printed with the 6500. The QP ad has no gloss appearance at all, the text at the bottom is almost blurry with the fuzzy edges. The cover was NOT UV Coated it was Varnish Coated.

Random, you have to have your head where the sun doesn't shine if you think that looks like offset, it's not even close. Looks like an office copier printing on gloss stock to me, no depth in the print just one flat, dull printed page. I would think the 700 would print much the same with the oil-less toner, but I will see at GraphExpo. I guess there is a reason the production presses use fuser oil after all.