Xerox 7002 & 8002

[DennisC.]

LodAssoc: We've had our 5000 (nonAP) for about 40 months and Xerox is really tempting us with a killer deal on "upgrading" to the 7002. We mostly run large stock (12x18) and have done huge jobs for a local museum who is very critical on consistent colorimetry.

So...advice please and please share your 7002 feedback since your last post in February...do we "upgrade" to a 5000AP or to a 7002...or just stay put until the 7002 issues get resolved? Your insights are invaluable and MUCH appreciated!

 

[LodAssoc]

Dennis: I would NOT get a 7002/8002. You will be saving yourself a lot of headaches. I ran a 5000 for 4 years, and absolutelty loved it. I had about 2.5-3MM on it when things started to go wrong. They were unable to fix it and they gave us "an offer we couldn't refuse", even though we should have. We were assigned a new salesman at this point and he pretty much suckered us into the 7002. We should have done a like-for-like and gotten a new 5000 or 5000AP.

Has your volume increased enough over the last couple months/years for you to consider upgrading? If not, and if you are satisfied with Xerox in all other aspects I would recommend getting a 5000AP, or two of them depending on your volume. Or do what I did: switch to Konica Minolta. You could get 2 refurbished KM6501's for less or equal to the same cost as a comparable Xerox machine.

The 7002, 8002, 8000AP, and the 700 all have the same color consistency issues. Those are the machines I've tested, and I'm sure other enine from Xerox probably have the same issues.

You will have a hell of a time getting out of your contract, which I assume is 48 or 60 months. Are you haveing problems with your 5000? If you are I would enact you "Total Satisfaction Guaruntee" that is written into your contract and get a new one, or upgrade to a 5000AP. I would go no further with Xerox from there.

Get in touch with a KM salesperson, and just see the price difference, for a machine that does practically the same thing, with much better finishing options.

For example: I got a KM6501 with a high cap. stacker, a saddle sticher (200 pages) that also trifolds nested sheets (up to 5), and does half fold, all with a face trim. I also have 2 large capacity feed drawers. It has a CREO RIP front end, as well as 20,000 color clicks and 5000 black clicks included in the monthly payment. The cost for that ENTIRE setup is only a few hundred dollars more than what Xerox was charging me for just the CREO Rip. Try that on for size.

I wouls be glad to advise you further if need be, but please DO NOT get sucked into the deal for the 7002 or 8002 or either of their AP versions. They had a color/banding issue that Xerox is aware of, and cannot fix. So don't hang around and wait, your business will suffer with Xerox. They are no longer the partner they used to be.

 

[digi-eu]

has Xerox sorted out this issue for you LodAssoc?
I have an offer from them on the 8002 and I'm thinking about changing one of my units. It's more or less the same case. 5000AP to 8002. From what I've been reading, it seems to have quite a bad opinion on this board. The Xerox reps are trying to convince me that the problems were just with the earlier 8002 units and all the problems have been resolved...

 

[gcspec]

I am a Xerox direct GC rep and I will tell you honestly - I have not even considered that model since shortly after it's launch a few years back. I did install a 7002 that gave me nothing but grief until November 2010. I learned of the relaunch effort taking place and had my service team install all of the retro fits at an internal cost of around $12,000 to my customers machine. Today, he couldn't be happier and is considering buying another one. He also has a KMC6501 that could print better solids and did better on the heavy areas of dark color due to our oil streaking. Again, look at this machine today and it's a whole different ball game. Honestly, I would compare today's image quality to that of an iGen - hands down, no hesitation! Please look at it and make up your own mind.

 

[LodAssoc]

Digi - Xerox was never able to get our machine(s) working. My advice to you would be to do the following:

1.) Run a test on a demo machine that is not in the Xerox office. They usually tend to look a little different then engines in the actual field. Find somebody in your area that would allow you to run a couple sheets off as a test.

2.) Choose a past job that is color critical and test the machine on that file, or multiple files.

3.) Keep the sheets in printed order and cut them down. Do not stack them, keep all cuts separate.

4.) Fan out each individual cut pack and check to see if there is color swing. Then put all stacks together and fan out again. If the machine is working "properly" there should be little (and I mean LITTLE), to no color swing.

5.) if you have color swing on your samples, pick a different machine.

I will tell you from my experience, the 7002 (I had 2 of them in here, and the both did it), the 8000AP, and the 700 all have color issues. I replaced the Xerox machines with a
KM 6501, and couldn't be happier. It has very, very, very minor color swings, but not sheet to sheet. I see slight color changes from sheet 1 to sheet 1000, which is completely exceptable.

The 8002 is basically the same engine as the 7002, only a little bit faster. For the price, if the the 7002 has in fact been fixed, it is not wirth the extra money to buy the 8002.

If you are a high quality, color critical shop with jobs for agencies or high end clients, I would recommend running extensive tests. Do not base you decision on the samples Xerox will give, or have goven you. They are doctored to look perfect.

I would be happy to give you a couple files thta i used as test runs if you need something that will show the defect if it is there.

They claim to have remedied the problems, but throughtout my hellacious dealings with Xerox, you can not believe everything they say.

Please contact me if you need more informations, or would like test files.

Good luck!

 

[KCJared]

Apparently these problems are well known and we've had specialists in and out of our shop trying to keep the machine running. They've changed the types of corotrons that the machine uses. They've also changed the type of cleaning blade on the drums and since then they have told me that the interval between changing developer needs to be cut in half. They also have a new toner and developer formula. Our temporary solution is to stock double the amount of spare parts and let the technicians know before hand when we are doing a long run so they are "on-call".

 

[LodAssoc]

KCJared - What engine(s) are you running?

 

[KCJared]

We have the dc 7002. Supposedly we had the first one Xerox installed. We installed it in October 2009. We're now on our second one.

 

[digi-eu]

I am a Xerox direct GC rep and I will tell you honestly - I have not even considered that model since shortly after it's launch a few years back. I did install a 7002 that gave me nothing but grief until November 2010. I learned of the relaunch effort taking place and had my service team install all of the retro fits at an internal cost of around $12,000 to my customers machine. Today, he couldn't be happier and is considering buying another one. He also has a KMC6501 that could print better solids and did better on the heavy areas of dark color due to our oil streaking. Again, look at this machine today and it's a whole different ball game. Honestly, I would compare today's image quality to that of an iGen - hands down, no hesitation! Please look at it and make up your own mind.

So you're saying that they did indeed make changes to the machine? Improvements that fixed all the problems in the first year or two of production?
Can you give a date when these improvements were made?
I'm finding this a bit hard to believe

 

[digi-eu]

Digi - Xerox was never able to get our machine(s) working. My advice to you would be to do the following:

1.) Run a test on a demo machine that is not in the Xerox office. They usually tend to look a little different then engines in the actual field. Find somebody in your area that would allow you to run a couple sheets off as a test.

2.) Choose a past job that is color critical and test the machine on that file, or multiple files.

3.) Keep the sheets in printed order and cut them down. Do not stack them, keep all cuts separate.

4.) Fan out each individual cut pack and check to see if there is color swing. Then put all stacks together and fan out again. If the machine is working "properly" there should be little (and I mean LITTLE), to no color swing.

5.) if you have color swing on your samples, pick a different machine.

I will tell you from my experience, the 7002 (I had 2 of them in here, and the both did it), the 8000AP, and the 700 all have color issues. I replaced the Xerox machines with a
KM 6501, and couldn't be happier. It has very, very, very minor color swings, but not sheet to sheet. I see slight color changes from sheet 1 to sheet 1000, which is completely exceptable.

The 8002 is basically the same engine as the 7002, only a little bit faster. For the price, if the the 7002 has in fact been fixed, it is not wirth the extra money to buy the 8002.

If you are a high quality, color critical shop with jobs for agencies or high end clients, I would recommend running extensive tests. Do not base you decision on the samples Xerox will give, or have goven you. They are doctored to look perfect.

I would be happy to give you a couple files thta i used as test runs if you need something that will show the defect if it is there.

They claim to have remedied the problems, but throughtout my hellacious dealings with Xerox, you can not believe everything they say.

Please contact me if you need more informations, or would like test files.

Good luck!

Hi, thanks for your reply. I will send you a private message regarding the samples. I would like to do some tests in Xerox within a few weeks time.