Xerox Versant 280 versus Ricoh Pro C5310 versus Canon C710 or C810

[k_graham]

I am looking at these 3 brands, it seems Konica Minolta is not offered in my area Dawson Creek and Fort St. John BC Canada, well the Canon dealer theoreticly does but has the Canon C710's in service.

Our Current unit is a Xerox 700i with Xerox FreeFlow and a separate Black Xerox 4110, and the Xerox 4110 is End of Life service December 31, 2020 with no local independent service available.

The new Versant 280 was top of list due to 400 gsm capability, 350 gsm duplex internally, plus Envelopes, but then I see complaints the Versants have coated paper issues with 2nd BTR failure. When I questioned Xerox they told me some plain paper needs to be fed, about 5%, the same true if running NCR as well. Do people agree?
Would other models by Ricoh and Canon also need some plain paper as I have not heard issues with them?

The Ricoh Pro C5310 I had discounted as I initially heard it could not feed #10 envelopes. Now via this forum I understand the 7200's do and I am told the C5310 with vacuum feed large capacity tray has the same system. The limitation seems to be the Versant specs indicate it could also run #8 and #9 sizes. I am not sure that's possible on the C5310, On the other hand Ricoh are pushing the Vacuum feed system as being great for accuracy .05mm and for NCR and 360 gsm would be enough if that's the duplex capability.

The Canon C710 and C810 tended to be off my list as the booklet finisher is up to 25 pages 20# and the others are up to 30 pages 20#. Also its a dealer vs factory service which I previously found dealers tend to be more conservative at throwing parts at something so quality drops off over the years as they push for a replacement machine at 3 years. Mind you that dealer was Ikon which sadly made money selling that philosophy when Icon was purchased by Ricoh.

Based on click charges it looks like it would take all of 5 years of cheaper black copies to pay for a black only machine, thus I am seriously considering buying just a better color machine that can run the Coated, Plain, NCR and Envelopes. Using the the Xerox 700i as backup when the new one is down. In that regard Xerox has said they would lock the current click charge if the new model is a Xerox.

Opinions?

 

[SoggyWinter]

Price the Versant 4100 too- I ended up buying a 3100 instead of a 180 a few years ago because the click costs delta made the 3100 less expensive overall. The 4100 should also come with a Customer Expectations Document that is a performance guarentee. The 3100 blasts through coated paper, uncoated paper, and NCR like a champ- never had major challenges. The Versant 3100 will run envelopes out of spec with some fussing in the stock library manager. If you put a sticker in just the right spot past the fuster it will run diagonal seam envelopes with few jams- maybe 1/500. I would expect the 4100 to be similar. All of the machines that you list are probably ok, but the click costs and quality of support techs will dictate your success.

There is one V3100 in my area and 3 180s in neighboring shops and I'm not aware of excessive 2nd BTR issues with any of us.

My biggest problems are the software, getting a defective stacker, and a defective RoS window. The machine is still profitable. I'll be taking a close look at the Ricoh and Canon lines at the next purchase time though.

 

[k_graham]

What was your price difference between 3100 and 180, was the machine double in initial cost?

More than double is what I am getting told, yet they did acknowledge having 2 old stock or demo units to move as they bring in the new units that accept the metallics and higher GSM. They have not bothered to provide the service charge on the higher model as I figured they should be much closer to the 280 price if not at the 280 price given they are obsolete models.

Also yesterday I brought up the Vacuum feed on the larger models which was why I thought maybe a old model not capable of the metallics would be okay for me.

but Xerox here in Canada told me theirs are only friction feed but that the 280 model is identical to the larger models to pick up the 400 GSM paper. That would appear to be a plus to the Ryobi except I don't think it can feed the smaller #8 and #9 envelopes that seem to be in the specs of the Xerox.

 

[auchprinting]

I am looking at these 3 brands, it seems Konica Minolta is not offered in my area Dawson Creek and Fort St. John BC Canada, well the Canon dealer theoreticly does but has the Canon C710's in service.

Our Current unit is a Xerox 700i with Xerox FreeFlow and a separate Black Xerox 4110, and the Xerox 4110 is End of Life service December 31, 2020 with no local independent service available.

The new Versant 280 was top of list due to 400 gsm capability, 350 gsm duplex internally, plus Envelopes, but then I see complaints the Versants have coated paper issues with 2nd BTR failure. When I questioned Xerox they told me some plain paper needs to be fed, about 5%, the same true if running NCR as well. Do people agree?
Would other models by Ricoh and Canon also need some plain paper as I have not heard issues with them?

The Ricoh Pro C5310 I had discounted as I initially heard it could not feed #10 envelopes. Now via this forum I understand the 7200's do and I am told the C5310 with vacuum feed large capacity tray has the same system. The limitation seems to be the Versant specs indicate it could also run #8 and #9 sizes. I am not sure that's possible on the C5310, On the other hand Ricoh are pushing the Vacuum feed system as being great for accuracy .05mm and for NCR and 360 gsm would be enough if that's the duplex capability.

The Canon C710 and C810 tended to be off my list as the booklet finisher is up to 25 pages 20# and the others are up to 30 pages 20#. Also its a dealer vs factory service which I previously found dealers tend to be more conservative at throwing parts at something so quality drops off over the years as they push for a replacement machine at 3 years. Mind you that dealer was Ikon which sadly made money selling that philosophy when Icon was purchased by Ricoh.

Based on click charges it looks like it would take all of 5 years of cheaper black copies to pay for a black only machine, thus I am seriously considering buying just a better color machine that can run the Coated, Plain, NCR and Envelopes. Using the the Xerox 700i as backup when the new one is down. In that regard Xerox has said they would lock the current click charge if the new model is a Xerox.

Opinions?

I was told that XEXOX copiers don't need a fiery?

 

[azehnali]

why dont you ask the person who told you that how you would print

 

[Ynot_UK]

I was told that XEXOX copiers don't need a fiery?

I think the confusion may be, Xerox copiers and MFPs may not need a Fiery, whereas Xerox production printers do, as they don't offer an OEM RIP, unlike their competitors. I'd wager this may change in the future.

 

[azehnali]

its will not on production copiers
Fiery bought Xerox freeflow so they are now in partnership

 

[Ynot_UK]

That was 4 years ago. It goes without saying in return for the 22m USD Efi paid for Xerox’ DFE, and the guaranteed volumes Xerox committed to buy from Efi, there would also be a clause prohibiting Xerox from developing a new RIP for a certain number of years. But that won’t be for eternity. Time will tell.

 

[azehnali]

Xerox does not manufacture anything any more
its all fuji
they say iridesse is make in Rochester but doubt that too

 

[Ynot_UK]

Xerox does not manufacture anything any more
its all fuji
they say iridesse is make in Rochester but doubt that too

That does not change what I've suggested above.

 

[Mr Production Print]

I am looking at these 3 brands, it seems Konica Minolta is not offered in my area Dawson Creek and Fort St. John BC Canada, well the Canon dealer theoreticly does but has the Canon C710's in service.

Our Current unit is a Xerox 700i with Xerox FreeFlow and a separate Black Xerox 4110, and the Xerox 4110 is End of Life service December 31, 2020 with no local independent service available.

The new Versant 280 was top of list due to 400 gsm capability, 350 gsm duplex internally, plus Envelopes, but then I see complaints the Versants have coated paper issues with 2nd BTR failure. When I questioned Xerox they told me some plain paper needs to be fed, about 5%, the same true if running NCR as well. Do people agree?
Would other models by Ricoh and Canon also need some plain paper as I have not heard issues with them?

The Ricoh Pro C5310 I had discounted as I initially heard it could not feed #10 envelopes. Now via this forum I understand the 7200's do and I am told the C5310 with vacuum feed large capacity tray has the same system. The limitation seems to be the Versant specs indicate it could also run #8 and #9 sizes. I am not sure that's possible on the C5310, On the other hand Ricoh are pushing the Vacuum feed system as being great for accuracy .05mm and for NCR and 360 gsm would be enough if that's the duplex capability.

The Canon C710 and C810 tended to be off my list as the booklet finisher is up to 25 pages 20# and the others are up to 30 pages 20#. Also its a dealer vs factory service which I previously found dealers tend to be more conservative at throwing parts at something so quality drops off over the years as they push for a replacement machine at 3 years. Mind you that dealer was Ikon which sadly made money selling that philosophy when Icon was purchased by Ricoh.

Based on click charges it looks like it would take all of 5 years of cheaper black copies to pay for a black only machine, thus I am seriously considering buying just a better color machine that can run the Coated, Plain, NCR and Envelopes. Using the the Xerox 700i as backup when the new one is down. In that regard Xerox has said they would lock the current click charge if the new model is a Xerox.

Opinions?

Hi K Graham, The Versant 280 is pretty solid. It runs envelopes but does jam and phantom jam (open door, close door) in the finisher. It is friction fed. The Ricoh c5300 is vacuum fed and this makes a big difference on envelopes. Regarding Black and White, the R&D being committed for mono (toner device) production in 2022 is about zero. A refurbished device would be fine: Ricoh 8200, KM (if you can get toner), Xerox D-series (if you're not running SRA3 whereby it slows to very poor print speeds) or even a Nuvera. The 700i will be EOL soon and would take space and become a coffee table. Don't make your decision based on keeping the old device. With lower quality and a higher click, it will get very sporadic usage.