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Ricoh 9110 Gray Issue....Solved...at least for me

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  • Ricoh 9110 Gray Issue....Solved...at least for me

    So my 9110 has always had poor gray application or printing good gray gradients. It has been an issue with Ricoh's machines since time immemorial.....I had a job that had a 5x7 part of gray gradient and I was normally converting that part to RGB in PitStop or if i had the native file making it RGB. You roll the dice when you do that because you can get some serious green "gray". I was not looking good even with a new profile so I was toying around with settings and I came across a setting in the Color section in the Color Input that reads "Print CMYK gray using black only". This is normally turned on by default but when I turned it off.....BOOM. Started getting a workable gray gradient and a slight amount of magenta. I simply knocked out some magenta using the Image Preview feature and my gray became a very sellable gray gradient.

    Left image: Print CMYK gray using black only" turned off
    Right image: Print CMYK gray using black only" turned on for "Text/Graphic/Images" per default.

    Not sure if I am simply an idiot for not ever noticing this but it made a lot of sense once i understood what it was doing. Glad I found it and hope it helps someone else because every time I asked Ricoh they always admitted that gray is always an "issue".

    grays.jpg

  • #2
    Not to defend any machine, but is there a toner based printer out that can get good gray gradients using "Print CMYK gray using black only" turned on for "Text/Graphic/Images"? Usually K only is pretty rough unless it is near solid.

    Comment


    • #3
      You are certainly correct. My issue was that when I asked Ricoh or anyone else I would would get the "Yeah that's an issue". I never really got a solution until i started tinkering with it and I cannot believe it was that simple.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by cDirect View Post
        So my 9110 has always had poor gray application or printing good gray gradients. It has been an issue with Ricoh's machines since time immemorial.....I had a job that had a 5x7 part of gray gradient and I was normally converting that part to RGB in PitStop or if i had the native file making it RGB. You roll the dice when you do that because you can get some serious green "gray". I was not looking good even with a new profile so I was toying around with settings and I came across a setting in the Color section in the Color Input that reads "Print CMYK gray using black only". This is normally turned on by default but when I turned it off.....BOOM. Started getting a workable gray gradient and a slight amount of magenta. I simply knocked out some magenta using the Image Preview feature and my gray became a very sellable gray gradient.oh

        Left image: Print CMYK gray using black only" turned off
        Right image: Print CMYK gray using black only" turned on for "Text/Graphic/Images" per default.

        Not sure if I am simply an idiot for not ever noticing this but it made a lot of sense once i understood what it was doing. Glad I found it and hope it helps someone else because every time I asked Ricoh they always admitted that gray is always an "issue".
        , no
        grays.jpg
        OK guys; I think I might have something for you on this. Been with Ricoh running a ProC9100 for about 2 years now and had lots of problems with this same issue. But what always surprised me is some gray screens looked great, nearly perfect, no green, no magenta, no blotchy look, and others looked terrible. Through trial and error as you mention cDirect I found this. Go to the image tab in job properties and in the upper left there is a section called "halftone simulation". There is a drop down, set it to the one called "user defined 3". Perfectly smooth, gray looking gray screens! The trade off is some pixilation in photos. And if you really want to fine tune this. Go to Server, and then go to where it says "halftone simulations", and you can fill in your own. (this is that drop downs look up table) I'm not at my press right now but I believe the "user defined 3" is a 120 line screen. You can apply other values in here to all colors. I've played with this a little but it seems like a snake pit to me so I've left it the way it was. You have to watch out that you don't create moire patterns and other bad stuff. This can also change the color of the gray, usually I see it lighten up when I do this. This trick works with screens that aren't gray as well. If you get a chance give this a try and let me know what you think.
        Tom M Ricoh ProC9100

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by tpmar View Post

          OK guys; I think I might have something for you on this. Been with Ricoh running a ProC9100 for about 2 years now and had lots of problems with this same issue. But what always surprised me is some gray screens looked great, nearly perfect, no green, no magenta, no blotchy look, and others looked terrible. Through trial and error as you mention cDirect I found this. Go to the image tab in job properties and in the upper left there is a section called "halftone simulation". There is a drop down, set it to the one called "user defined 3". Perfectly smooth, gray looking gray screens! The trade off is some pixilation in photos. And if you really want to fine tune this. Go to Server, and then go to where it says "halftone simulations", and you can fill in your own. (this is that drop downs look up table) I'm not at my press right now but I believe the "user defined 3" is a 120 line screen. You can apply other values in here to all colors. I've played with this a little but it seems like a snake pit to me so I've left it the way it was. You have to watch out that you don't create moire patterns and other bad stuff. This can also change the color of the gray, usually I see it lighten up when I do this. This trick works with screens that aren't gray as well. If you get a chance give this a try and let me know what you think.
          Tom, your insight is very appreciated. I will try your suggestions tomorrow and let you know.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by tpmar View Post

            OK guys; I think I might have something for you on this. Been with Ricoh running a ProC9100 for about 2 years now and had lots of problems with this same issue. But what always surprised me is some gray screens looked great, nearly perfect, no green, no magenta, no blotchy look, and others looked terrible. Through trial and error as you mention cDirect I found this. Go to the image tab in job properties and in the upper left there is a section called "halftone simulation". There is a drop down, set it to the one called "user defined 3". Perfectly smooth, gray looking gray screens! The trade off is some pixilation in photos. And if you really want to fine tune this. Go to Server, and then go to where it says "halftone simulations", and you can fill in your own. (this is that drop downs look up table) I'm not at my press right now but I believe the "user defined 3" is a 120 line screen. You can apply other values in here to all colors. I've played with this a little but it seems like a snake pit to me so I've left it the way it was. You have to watch out that you don't create moire patterns and other bad stuff. This can also change the color of the gray, usually I see it lighten up when I do this. This trick works with screens that aren't gray as well. If you get a chance give this a try and let me know what you think.
            I haven't messed with it before but changed it to user defined 3 on my 7100 and it pixilated the crap out of what I was test printing with, but it had lots of graphics. And it is 120 line screen for 3.
            (2) Ricoh Pro 7110SX digital printers
            OKI C931e with Straight Shooter Envelope feeder

            Comment


            • #7
              I tried it as well and it did pixelate but the other option I mentioned (turning off "Print CMYK gray using black only") has helped me tremendously. I will be using Tom's suggestion for non graphic instances though.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by cDirect View Post
                I tried it as well and it did pixelate but the other option I mentioned (turning off "Print CMYK gray using black only") has helped me tremendously. I will be using Tom's suggestion for non graphic instances though.
                Yeah; it's kind of a "pick your poison" kind of thing. Also, you can put in whatever values you want in that user defined 3. I've got some pretty good results changing it from 120 to 150. That the great thing about this group, I learn so much from other Ricoh operators that I could from any other source. Thanks cDirect for starting this thread.
                Tom M Ricoh ProC9100

                Comment

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