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HP admits that Indigo prints "disrupt recycling"

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  • HP admits that Indigo prints "disrupt recycling"

    Hp Indigo disrupts recycling.

    http://pub.ingede.com/en-GB/news1807/

  • #2
    Next step. Who is responsible for the disruption HP, HP press purchaser, printing purchaser or the end user. HP is aware the press purchaser should be aware if HP informed them. The printing purchaser should be aware if the press purchaser informed them. The end user wouldn't have a clue.

    Comment


    • #3
      Official recognition of what has been known for a long time? Unlikely to make a difference unless HP can reformulate their inks.
      Now, I wonder if anyone is looking into Landa’s nano inks? So far no official mention of recyclability and any such questions are not answered.

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      • #4
        nanography info https://www.ingede.com/ingindxe/news...ws1607-pub.pdf

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Green Printer View Post
          Landa’s second strike.
          Pitiful. No wonder Landa doesn’t talk about it.
          Last edited by gordo; 09-09-2018, 11:13 PM.

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          • #6
            Until about 1980 virtually all printed paper was recyclable. Now we are at a cross point of possibly destroying the recycling chain without government regulations, interference with possible outright ban on some printing process. All of the non recyclable fibers cannot even be used for toilet paper and sanitary products. Who is going to wipe with plastic embedded. The next problem is when the paper enters the waste sewage treatment system how are they going to remove the small plastic pieces. Plastic is not biomass the sewage treatment bacteria cannot eat the plastic. The plastic ends up in retention ponds and then landfilled or dumped into the local stream, river etcetera eventually ending up in an ocean.
            With all of the collective knowledge of this forum members what can be done to solve the non recyclable fiber problem.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Green Printer View Post
              Until about 1980 virtually all printed paper was recyclable. Now we are at a cross point of possibly destroying the recycling chain without government regulations, interference with possible outright ban on some printing process. All of the non recyclable fibers cannot even be used for toilet paper and sanitary products. Who is going to wipe with plastic embedded. The next problem is when the paper enters the waste sewage treatment system how are they going to remove the small plastic pieces. Plastic is not biomass the sewage treatment bacteria cannot eat the plastic. The plastic ends up in retention ponds and then landfilled or dumped into the local stream, river etcetera eventually ending up in an ocean.
              With all of the collective knowledge of this forum members what can be done to solve the non recyclable fiber problem.
              If it is as bad as you say, there are really only 2 options. Ban the types of printing that are not de-inkable. That will go over real well in the US let me tell ya. Second would be that maybe instead of the printing industry being forced to come up with the solution, the recycling industry should be the ones to solve the problem. Printing has evolved. Has recycling?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by AP90 View Post

                If it is as bad as you say, there are really only 2 options. Ban the types of printing that are not de-inkable. That will go over real well in the US let me tell ya. Second would be that maybe instead of the printing industry being forced to come up with the solution, the recycling industry should be the ones to solve the problem. Printing has evolved. Has recycling?
                Surely it’s better to avoid the problem in the first place than focus resources after the fact in trying to fix it?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by AP90 View Post

                  If it is as bad as you say, there are really only 2 options. Ban the types of printing that are not de-inkable. That will go over real well in the US let me tell ya. Second would be that maybe instead of the printing industry being forced to come up with the solution, the recycling industry should be the ones to solve the problem. Printing has evolved. Has recycling?
                  Maybe the use of much more agressive chemicals at the de-inking phase? No, thanks. Make inks which can be removed with a sane process. Remember that the printed materials can reach geographic areas where there are no sophisticated recycling methods employed, or there is no recycling at all. Ultimately the printed paper should stay bio-degradable by Mother Nature.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Agree with you, gordo and Puch.

                    Print products have changed from being homogeneous, from standard prints in offset and gravure, towards a lot of different products with additional varnishes, new inks, or completely different processes. The recycling industry has not changed? This is a frequent killer argument. If tomorrow you decide to print on plastic, it will be clear that this product does not match the paper recycling process. What if you do not change the matrix but the ink? It is less obvious but the same problem: if one decides to put a plastic layer on paper which is more of a lamination than a printing process. Paper recycling has been designed for printed products, not for laminated products. If one designs a new product, producer responsibility would mean to look into the life cycle. Does this product match the existing cycles? If it doesn’t, you better design a collection and recycling system with it! Or why should others have to clean up after you and allow you to abuse their established and fine-tuned system?

                    Glass recyclers cannot recycle cans nor plastic bottles. Still either of them can be recycled, no problem, as long as they are kept separately. It is more difficult with printed (“processed”) paper, but this is where France now starts asking for more producer responsibility. If you laminate a paper with a plastic film, it is not a printed product. And it is not the job of paper recyclers to clean up after those who fail to design a sustainable product. If you collect laminated products separately there are ways to recycle them. But not in the mix. And there is no way to separate them other than either at the source or by a label: “Do not put this laminated product into paper recycling.”

                    And Puch, you're absolutely right, but one problem that is sometimes overlooked: Not everything biodegradable is deinkable. In Europe, e. g. soy inks are not so common, there is no ecolabel for them -- when drying, they polymerize and attach to the fibers, difficult to remove. Other vegetable oils do both -- degrade and deink.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      At this moment there are over 4400 users on line. How about some comments this effects the whole printing industry world wide. Hp and other manufacturers need input.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Green Printer View Post
                        At this moment there are over 4400 users on line. How about some comments this effects the whole printing industry world wide. Hp and other manufacturers need input.
                        I feel like this is a much bigger deal and more concerning in countries other than the US. I know we're way behind europe and Canada as far as recycling goes, but I also know businesses are self driven. That means that if you put big restrictions on toner (plastic on paper) products, your going to have some major push back. It wouldn't go over well. But in all honesty, the local area I live and have my company in does not make it easy to recycle for our business. Like honestly its a huge PITA.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I posted a link to this thread on various other forums. They were all removed in a matter of hours. Mr. White thank you for letting this progess.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Green Printer View Post
                            I posted a link to this thread on various other forums. They were all removed in a matter of hours. Mr. White thank you for letting this progess.
                            Why do you suppose that happened?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This problem is much larger than just having printers separating the waste. Most of the waste will be in the hands of consumers. They have no way of knowing how products are printed and are not likely to care. This issue reminds me of the recycling issues raised with UV inks and coatings. In many discussions with the recycling associations, there was no give on changing anything is their processes. Why? It costs more money and there was no incentive to change. As someone stated earlier, locations doing recycling are not widespread and are limited in capacity. They can be very selective in their incoming waste. I will not pretend to have an answer, but I believe it we need a coordinated effort between Material, Machine, and Recycling Companies. As technologies change, ALL involved have to make changes as well.

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