Standard Finishing
Xerox

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Buy it or Build It? - That is the Question

Collapse
Canon
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Bobmorli
    replied
    Re: Buy it or Build It? - That is the Question

    I'd build it / fix it myself rather that to get Ghostbusters in here...

    Leave a comment:


  • G_Town
    replied
    Re: Buy it or Build It? - That is the Question

    Ghostbusters?

    Leave a comment:


  • alarson
    replied
    Re: Buy it or Build It? - That is the Question

    There are some amazing systems out there that are very elaborate with hot folders here, Applescripts there, perl scripts here, VB thing here, with a nice picture to the iPhone.

    Who do you call when something busts? What happens when the new CS4 with Sparkles and scratch and sniff comes out? Who tests all this when you put in that new Polar cutter? What will it cost you to recode your webpage in Spanish?

    What happens when the one nerd that put this all together bails and decides that the Canadian dollar looks pretty rosy and we have better beer in Canada?

    Look at the vendors from a worst case scenario mode. Hard down service issues. Major upgrades to standard software. Look at the R&D budgets and numbers of bodies that test everything not just RIP, Trap, Plate timings.

    It's like building a sweet car in your garage. You could buy the engine from this catalog, the wheels from eBay, the paint from your brother in law, the stereo from Craiglist, the drivetrain made on your lathe. But when you are flying down the highway and a piston comes through your hood, who ya gonna call?

    Leave a comment:


  • mattbeals
    replied
    Re: Buy it or Build It? - That is the Question

    This is where Gradual FullSWITCH and PowerSWITCH really shine. They let you build a workflow using the different pieces of software/hardware that you've already invested in and tie them together. I have a lot of customers who already have "integrated workflows" that are "integrated" in that it's Xitron, Prinergy, Screen, etc. But they aren't necessarily "integrated" with the rest of prepress or other operations. SWITCH allows us to do that and extend automation in a meaningful way further upstream and downstream.

    If anyone is interested in more information let me know.

    Leave a comment:


  • pcmodem
    replied
    Re: Buy it or Build It? - That is the Question

    Workflow is something more than just a Prepress RIP. Workflow is the entire process of a job, from how it is created to how it is handled and produced. There is no way to buy one piece of software and expect it to be your workflow. Procedures are also part of the workflow too.

    What you can do is buy the MIS system, Prepress RIP, Imposition software, Presses, cutters, and folders that support JDF and CIP4. This would just be the technical part of creating a workflow. You have to get all of your systems connected and talking with each other correctly. Then comes writing or modifying the procedures to make it more efficient and more consistent from one person to the next.

    A workflow is about automating as much of the process to make the job go through the shop easier, faster, more accurate, and with less problems. If the workflow solution that you come up with doesn't improve the four items above, then you need to look at your workflow again.

    Bottom line, you can buy the most expensive systems on the market and still not have a workflow if you have not made them work together with your other systems and have not written the procedures to follow suit.

    Buy and Build

    Brian Cupp

    Leave a comment:


  • TheBlueShadow
    replied
    Re: Buy it or Build It? - That is the Question


    I think it depends on the competency level of your prepress operators.



    *High competency* = Build it or Buy it ... the operators can handle it.



    *Low competency* = Buy it ... better support for the workflow from the single vendor.




    If you buy a complete workflow you will have a better support system with that one vendor. If it's a piece-meal then you have to rely on your operators to figure out the problems. The vendors will just point fingers because they don't know the other system well enough to determine where the problem is.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gerhard
    replied
    Re: Buy it or Build It? - That is the Question

    Hi,
    First of all you should consider what you are really looking for.
    Workflow is the utmost misused phrase in our century. There are so called workflows from Heidelberg, Agfa, Kodak and so on but all of them are only built to serve themselves. If you want a real front - end workflow you should build one yourself and for your own purpose. There are some "ready made" ones but they will not fit you and the customizing will not only eat your money but it will also eat your brain.
    My advise: Make a plan how you want it and then look around to find the items that fits your requirements. Build it in an open way, means that you can add or change items according to the future growth of the company.
    When I built workflows I did like this and I always succeeded.
    Regards,
    Gerhard

    Leave a comment:


  • macphenom
    replied
    Re: Buy it or Build It? - That is the Question

    You are correct about the convoluted way to initially set up the device, however I have found that the epsons tend not to drift far from the initial calibration.
    We use ColorMetrix to monitor the DeltaE of the proofs and after 1 year the DeltaE has barely moved, so little in fact a customer could never tell the difference.
    http://colormetrix.com

    Leave a comment:


  • Lammy
    replied
    Re: Buy it or Build It? - That is the Question

    I found the process in which it takes to calibrate and tune the RPD is not very user friendly. The whole thing with having to figure ink splits and chorma hooks !
    http://nastyz28.com/ubb/icons/confused.gif! Relinierzation is something not easily accomplished either IIRC. EFI and GMG both have much eaiser and faster interfaces for this. I've always said RAMpage would have been better off to integrating and bundleEFI than to have to developed thier own. I am however a 9.4 user and it your results may vary if you have a newer version.

    Leave a comment:


  • G_Town
    replied
    Re: Buy it or Build It? - That is the Question

    David,

    I did not run or own the company, nor did I make the financial decisions.

    I merely pointed out some people don't consider it (prepress) as important as having a shiny new press.

    You don't need to lecture me on the need for a good workflow, after 20 years I'm well aware, I was merely trying to point out it's not always so easy, even with the right ammo, to convince certain people to purchase what's needed.

    For that reason, among many others, I quit that place and now work for a company with the resources and understanding of what's needed.

    Perhaps this was the wrong place to vent my frustrations with ignorant owners.

    Leave a comment:


  • macphenom
    replied
    Re: Buy it or Build It? - That is the Question

    Why do you think the icc option from rampage is so lousy?
    I have my two epsons dialed in so close to our presses that almost all our customers that were getting
    Fuji final proofs have switched to the epsons because the color is dead on and they are a 10th of the cost.

    Leave a comment:


  • detric_1
    replied
    Re: Buy it or Build It? - That is the Question

    G-Town, this kinda sounds like a chicken and the egg conversation. Are the successful companies that way because they invest in their people and technology, or do they invest in their people and company because they're successful. Believe me I've been in my fair share of environments where prep was looked at as "a black hole" and through effort, logic, tons of hard work and just making things work, I've succeeded at getting to where I am.

    Success begets success. Make a better mouse trap, and the world will beat a path to your door.

    Dave

    Leave a comment:


  • Lammy
    replied
    Re: Buy it or Build It? - That is the Question

    IMO, building your own is the way to go. While buying a complete system like Apogee is simple, I think it leaves the MFG in a position where they are now responsible for to much so each area only gets so much attention. Buy the most robust solutions from companies that are only supporting that product.

    I think RAMpage is a good example of this. They make a great RIP because it's all they do. Then they tried to do the ICC profile/ proofing thing and it was/is lousy.

    Leave a comment:


  • G_Town
    replied
    Re: Buy it or Build It? - That is the Question

    Totally agree Allen.

    This is the way to go, don't get me wrong I haven't been totally unsucessfull in getting upgrades, my favorite was showing the owner a PS filter being run on a Quadra 950 (yea Quadra and not that long ago I might add) alongside a G3 that I had gotten in to replace another 950 which I claimed had died (it hadn't). After seeing the G3 complete the filter in about 30 seconds while the Quadra was still chugging away after 10 minutes he busted out his credit card.

    I'm just glad I don't have to deal with that crap anymore.

    Leave a comment:


  • afilson
    replied
    Re: Buy it or Build It? - That is the Question

    I too have heard the "black hole" analogy. But, money speaks to those people. So build your case based on dollars not tech talk. Try and show the cost savings with a particular system upgrade. Use current FTE time that it takes to do certain tasks associated with your current method of prepress. Multiply that out to get a monthly or yearly figure. Now with your proposed solution, do the same thing. Where will it save you time and steps in the process? How will the owners bottom line look using your new system? How much more can you do without adding any FTE's (i.e. how much capacity increase will the new system net you)? Show the "cheeseburgers (Dollars, Euros)" and how soon you will get your ROI. This is what will speak to your "black hole" people. Show the savings and let the numbers do the talking.

    Leave a comment:

CanonKBAAvantiXeroxSmartsoft (Presswise)DuploEnfocus

Free Download

Collapse

Trade Show Survey=
Instant October Trade Show Survey
Come On! Only 5 Questions

PRINT 19 and PRINTING United are squaring off in October.
Will you be at one of them?
Both? Neither?
Please take our 1-Minute survey to tell us about your plans for the two big fall shows!

Take The Survey.

CanonSmartsoft (Presswise)AvantiGraph ExpoKBAAvantiEnfocusGraph ExpoDuploXerox

What's Going On

Collapse

There are currently 2978 users online. 45 members and 2933 guests.

Most users ever online was 6,855 at 12:33 PM on 06-06-2019.

Working...
X