B&W Printers
- Thread starter CSimpson
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Scientific Evaluation
Scientific Evaluation
I am sure that everyone responding to this post has great reasons for suggesting these printers, but I am always of the belief that a SCIENTIFIC evaluation of printers is in order.
This evaluation should include many, if not all, of the factors previous posters have brought up, in addition to qualifying printers on print qualify versus need, paper size, etc.
A full financial evaluation should be undertaken, including cost/lease, maintenance, click, paper cost and labor (which is where speed comes in). I have developed many of the evaluations and would be glad to help you through the process.
Scientific Evaluation
I am sure that everyone responding to this post has great reasons for suggesting these printers, but I am always of the belief that a SCIENTIFIC evaluation of printers is in order.
This evaluation should include many, if not all, of the factors previous posters have brought up, in addition to qualifying printers on print qualify versus need, paper size, etc.
A full financial evaluation should be undertaken, including cost/lease, maintenance, click, paper cost and labor (which is where speed comes in). I have developed many of the evaluations and would be glad to help you through the process.
500k per month? Not a problem. Try Canon.
500k per month? Not a problem. Try Canon.
Having seen the output of all these contenders , I would recommend the 1125 because it's produces the highest quality output and superior registration, and paper handling. Nothing else can print on glossy coated paper the way it can. From a workhorse perspective, if your volume may go over a million, then the imageRUNNER Pro 7110,7125,7138,7150 (made by Kodak) is the way to go. The best grayscale, and even though it's only 600x600dpi, check the quality--it's impressive. Not cheap, but a true workhorse in the tradition of Kodak and the (I hate to say it) DocuTech. Some of these have racked up 150 million clicks and are still running strong. The Nuvera--nice quality with a few minor cavils (glossy coated stocks), but many regard it as "fast plastic," and suspect it will not go the distance, though I'm sure that there are many out there that have already come a ways. Full disclosure: I work for Canon, though I speak only for myself. If you liked the service you got on the iR85s, which were very strong runners, you will probably be well served by the same techs.
500k per month? Not a problem. Try Canon.
Having seen the output of all these contenders , I would recommend the 1125 because it's produces the highest quality output and superior registration, and paper handling. Nothing else can print on glossy coated paper the way it can. From a workhorse perspective, if your volume may go over a million, then the imageRUNNER Pro 7110,7125,7138,7150 (made by Kodak) is the way to go. The best grayscale, and even though it's only 600x600dpi, check the quality--it's impressive. Not cheap, but a true workhorse in the tradition of Kodak and the (I hate to say it) DocuTech. Some of these have racked up 150 million clicks and are still running strong. The Nuvera--nice quality with a few minor cavils (glossy coated stocks), but many regard it as "fast plastic," and suspect it will not go the distance, though I'm sure that there are many out there that have already come a ways. Full disclosure: I work for Canon, though I speak only for myself. If you liked the service you got on the iR85s, which were very strong runners, you will probably be well served by the same techs.
Well, instead of geting two equal machines each one doing 500 to 750k a month I went with one Oce 6250 and one Oce 9522 (A rebadged KM machine ) for those quick copies or when the big boy is waiting on a service tech. I am very happy with my choice and the cost was cheaper than two Nuveras or two Digimasters.
If anyone has any specific questions I would be happy to answer them.
If anyone has any specific questions I would be happy to answer them.
Oce 6250
Oce 6250
I have been running two KM 1050 for the past four years and am finally reaching their life and duty cycle max. I am looking at the KM 1200 but recently learned about the OCE Varioprint.
Now that you have been running the OCE 6250 for several months how is the marketing matching the reality?
Any issues with image transfer after printing?
How frequently do you see the technician?
How many different paper types and weights do you run?
Do you run any pre-printed stocks or letterhead?
Thank you.
Ray
Oce 6250
I have been running two KM 1050 for the past four years and am finally reaching their life and duty cycle max. I am looking at the KM 1200 but recently learned about the OCE Varioprint.
Now that you have been running the OCE 6250 for several months how is the marketing matching the reality?
Any issues with image transfer after printing?
How frequently do you see the technician?
How many different paper types and weights do you run?
Do you run any pre-printed stocks or letterhead?
Thank you.
Ray
We have multiple 6250s. They have strengths and weaknesses. The big plus is that they're smoking fast and have good up-time. They can also handle many different sorts of papers.
When they're selling the machine they don't tell you that the "250" part is only burst speed. There is a cleaning cycle that runs every few hundred sheets, and this will put your real speed at ~220pg/minute before you account for any downtime.
We have had issues with oil and drying power and coatings causing trouble from pre-printed stocks.
The image won't transfer, but if you store a stack in a high-temp environment -- a very hot truck or warehouse for instance -- the toner can get a bit sticky and your pages will be tacky. The machine, and thus the plasticizers in the toner are low temp. This is good for paper handling and energy usage, but not so great if, say, your shop is in a desert environment and the back of your delivery truck is not air-conditioned.
A 6250 would be superior in every way to your 1050. I can't comment on the 1200's reliability, but from what I've seen of demos the quality was pretty good -- comparable to the 6250, though very different.
There's a pretty big difference between these machines, lease wise and maintenance wise. I'd be looking at your volumes and uses before asking which machine is better. The max duty cycle for a 1200 is around the minimum recommended cycle for the 6250. The real question is which machine is better for you.
When they're selling the machine they don't tell you that the "250" part is only burst speed. There is a cleaning cycle that runs every few hundred sheets, and this will put your real speed at ~220pg/minute before you account for any downtime.
We have had issues with oil and drying power and coatings causing trouble from pre-printed stocks.
The image won't transfer, but if you store a stack in a high-temp environment -- a very hot truck or warehouse for instance -- the toner can get a bit sticky and your pages will be tacky. The machine, and thus the plasticizers in the toner are low temp. This is good for paper handling and energy usage, but not so great if, say, your shop is in a desert environment and the back of your delivery truck is not air-conditioned.
A 6250 would be superior in every way to your 1050. I can't comment on the 1200's reliability, but from what I've seen of demos the quality was pretty good -- comparable to the 6250, though very different.
There's a pretty big difference between these machines, lease wise and maintenance wise. I'd be looking at your volumes and uses before asking which machine is better. The max duty cycle for a 1200 is around the minimum recommended cycle for the 6250. The real question is which machine is better for you.
We actually have a 4120. All we run is twenty lb bond and sometimes 24 lb. It runs beautifully all the time. I have not noticed it stopping to adjust quality like other printers. The cost per copy is the greatest feature. We are a POD publisher and we print books four up on 11x17. WE have run 12x18 15lb. paper. It jammed up a couple of times but printed beautifully.
I have had my 6250 for a while now and I have added a 4120 to my shop since and I am extremely happy with both. Note: the 9522 is straight garbage for a print shop. I have 10 million clicks on my 6250 of which 80% are 11x17 clicks and the machine has had 5 service calls. Two of those calls were because plastic bushing had worn out on the belt tracking mechanism and they were replaced with metal bushing to prevent that problem in the future. One was due to a tray's feed system needing to be replaced. The other two calls were for print quality issues. I mostly run 60# international brand offset or 20# GP Spectrum bond, but I have noticed if I run Domtar brand paper in either machine I have problems in the stacker. I don't know why but it is severe problems to the point Domtar paper is unusable. The technician can't explain it and just recommends that I avoid Domtar paper.
I am in Louisiana and it is kinda strange. At one time there was a company called Imagistics and Oce bought them; however, Imagistics within Louisiana was an individually owned subsidiary of Imagistics or something to that effect. So, in Louisiana you had Oce and you had Corporate Oce. They divided their territory in the cut sheet market based on print shop size (I actually think is done by something stupid like square feet or something), and all the wide format equipment is done through Corporate Oce. So, in my case my service on my cut sheet equipment comes from Oce, my service on my wide format printer comes from Corporate Oce, and all my leases are through Oce Financial. The funny thing is the guy that service my wide format is trained on the 6250, but he can't touch mine, but my service techs can use him as a resource. The people who came in for training and set up the software were Corporate Oce and if I have a problem that is who I would call. The whole thing is strange because it is like Oce has a dealer that they own who can only sell and service Oce cut sheet hardware, and from what I can gather from people it all goes back to a bunch of legal mumbo jumbo involving Imagistic before Oce bought them. I am not sure if this structure will remain this way after the restructuring due to the Canon deal, but I am used to it now and believe it or not it really doesn't bother me.
I think Nuvera will be the best option for mailing because
In mailing production you just print on preprented or blank stock. and you will put the letter into envelope inserter. Oce result will damage the prints because envelope inserter using rubber roller that will scuffing the letter and some text/graphic will missing (Not good)
Nuvera is comparable to Kodak Digimaster and Oce 6160 (xerox has better service)
Oce have the similar result on black colour with offset (which is not solid black) but you can scuff the print result from OCE (Not good).
If you print a lot of novel or student book, choose OCE 6000 series.
xerox 4000 series is comparable to KM1050 and OCE4000 series. good for high volume BW for schools and academic that you need finishing option such as stapling, booklet making, hole punching.
I hope that will help.
In mailing production you just print on preprented or blank stock. and you will put the letter into envelope inserter. Oce result will damage the prints because envelope inserter using rubber roller that will scuffing the letter and some text/graphic will missing (Not good)
Nuvera is comparable to Kodak Digimaster and Oce 6160 (xerox has better service)
Oce have the similar result on black colour with offset (which is not solid black) but you can scuff the print result from OCE (Not good).
If you print a lot of novel or student book, choose OCE 6000 series.
xerox 4000 series is comparable to KM1050 and OCE4000 series. good for high volume BW for schools and academic that you need finishing option such as stapling, booklet making, hole punching.
I hope that will help.
[email protected]
Well-known member
I've heard on other forums that the Oce' cost per copy is usually a lot higher than other brands...on here however it sounds like it might not be the case.
Anyone with an Oce' want to share cpc information. In my area, on a high production machine, we expect the cpc for b/w to be between .005 and .01
Anyone with an Oce' want to share cpc information. In my area, on a high production machine, we expect the cpc for b/w to be between .005 and .01
[email protected]
Well-known member
That sounds right. I've done 80ppm machines at 0.006 with no minimums before. I think the min. volume is what gets the price driven down.
MailGuru
Well-known member
When we first got in to digital, we had a very bad experience with the company we bought the printers through, (service, supplies, machines down for days waiting on parts, non-responsive service techs, etc.). That company was later bought out by Ricoh, but, we certainly learned our lesson (the hard way.) As a result, our current corporate policy is that we will ABSOLUTELY NEVER again buy a piece of equipment from anyone other than the Original Equipment Manufacturer........
Thanks
you know more than my xerox dealer
what is the FSMA difernce between 4127 and the nuvera?
What configuration would you buy if you have a monthly volume of
1.5 milion A4 pages and you have to do them in 6-7 days. (billing)
Oce 2 x 4110
Konica 2 x 1050ep
Xerox 2 x 4127
or
Xerox Nuvera 1 x 144 EA
For printing 1,5 million of A4, if they are double sided, the best is a varioprint 6000. I have done it a few time with peak print up to 400K A4(one side) in one day. The main problem is the machine is only interesting if you are printing the two side of the sheets!
2 X4110 can do it also but you are taking some risk, especially if you have a big technical intervention and it doesn't happens smoothly (it always may happens)
I would forget the 4127, they are not designed for that kind of work and don't appreciate at all to work hard(you are going to have some serious quality problems and be ready to call the technical service more than a few times)
1 nuvera doens't seems to be enough
No idea about the konica, I don't know well enough.
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