7200 #10 Re-Folding...

[kdw75]

After more than a year with our Ricoh printers, there is only one thing that still bugs me about them vs our Xerox V2100. That is the refolding of #10 envelopes. When we run #10s they are refolded so that when you look at the finished envelope the new fold is slightly into the flap at the tail of the envelope. Our V2100 never did this. Meaning that if you hold the envelope with the return address on your left, the left side of the envelope would measure 4.125 inches whereas the right side after being printed would measure 4.4 inches. This makes your image appear crooked in some cases and also makes the envelopes thicker on that side, since the fold isn't as tight. So when you put them back in the box they are much fluffier on the right side.

Does anyone have any suggestions for fixing this? We have tried regular envelopes and side seam to no avail.

Keith

 

[Shawnd]

I got a setup similar to yours based on your feedback and have the same issue. I had a really good tech out to fix another issue and while he was on site we spent the good part of half a day just on trying to fix this issue with no resolution. The issue is at the rollers in the picture below, the envelope flap gets slightly skewed up and that is what causes the dogearing the rest of the way. Ricoh support would only say to open the flaps and are not much help.

If anyone has a fix I am all "ears"

 

[tngcas]

We run two Xerox V2100 and I haven't noticed them refolding (we run them flap closed). Maybe I'm not understanding the issue?

We do put a piece of paper into the machine right after the fuser to prevent it from dogearing the envelopes. We run side-seam #10s and #10 peel and seal envelopes with the flaps closed.

For close to a year and half one of the printers couldn't be used to run any envelopes at all because they skewed consistently 2 degrees (I could rotate the artwork 2 degrees and then print it and it would come out straight). The tech couldn't fix it the first few times they tried. Our printer tech finally found a missing spring that was causing it and now we can run envelopes on both printers.

 

[Shawnd]

The issue the OP is talking about happens with Ricoh 7200's.

 

[tngcas]

After more than a year with our Ricoh printers, there is only one thing that still bugs me about them vs our Xerox V2100. That is the refolding of #10 envelopes. When we run #10s they are refolded so that when you look at the finished envelope the new fold is slightly into the flap at the tail of the envelope. Our V2100 never did this. Meaning that if you hold the envelope with the return address on your left, the left side of the envelope would measure 4.125 inches whereas the right side after being printed would measure 4.4 inches. This makes your image appear crooked in some cases and also makes the envelopes thicker on that side, since the fold isn't as tight. So when you put them back in the box they are much fluffier on the right side.

Does anyone have any suggestions for fixing this? We have tried regular envelopes and side seam to no avail.

Keith

I just realized that you were saying the Ricoh printers are doing the refolding thing. I have experience with them so hopefully someone else will have an answer.

 

[msaeger]

After more than a year with our Ricoh printers, there is only one thing that still bugs me about them vs our Xerox V2100. That is the refolding of #10 envelopes. When we run #10s they are refolded so that when you look at the finished envelope the new fold is slightly into the flap at the tail of the envelope. Our V2100 never did this. Meaning that if you hold the envelope with the return address on your left, the left side of the envelope would measure 4.125 inches whereas the right side after being printed would measure 4.4 inches. This makes your image appear crooked in some cases and also makes the envelopes thicker on that side, since the fold isn't as tight. So when you put them back in the box they are much fluffier on the right side.

Does anyone have any suggestions for fixing this? We have tried regular envelopes and side seam to no avail.

Keith

Gotta picture?

 

[kdw75]

We run two Xerox V2100 and I haven't noticed them refolding (we run them flap closed). Maybe I'm not understanding the issue?

We do put a piece of paper into the machine right after the fuser to prevent it from dogearing the envelopes. We run side-seam #10s and #10 peel and seal envelopes with the flaps closed.

For close to a year and half one of the printers couldn't be used to run any envelopes at all because they skewed consistently 2 degrees (I could rotate the artwork 2 degrees and then print it and it would come out straight). The tech couldn't fix it the first few times they tried. Our printer tech finally found a missing spring that was causing it and now we can run envelopes on both printers.

We used packaging tape on our 2100 and it runs envelopes like a champ.

 

[kdw75]

Gotta picture?

 

[msaeger]

Have you tried to lower the fusing pressure?

 

[mongoose]

I have Ricoh 7210 and I have the exact same problem. I had the tech came out yesterday again to see if there is anything they could do about it and he spent a good 3-4hrs and tried every possible options such as adjusting the fuse temp, nip width, etc. every single parameter has been tried. He was able to get it very very close meaning the refolding was less than the picture of the OP posted. But it's still a little bit there so it's still annoying to deliver this kind of quality. I was planning to share the values if it's completely fixed but it's just close and not completely fixed.

So he said he needs to escalate up further to see if there is anything else they can do. Ricoh did say that they have been working on some envelope adapter for the 7200 but it's been promised for months but still don't see anything yet. Until then, i won't use ricoh machine to run these #10 envelopes. For those, who plan to buy Ricoh machine and print envelopes. Don't count on it regardless of what they promise you.

 

[Shawnd]

Im telling you, it is happening at the rollers in my picture I posted, we dead stopped the machine and found the exact spot. It has been confirmed as an issue but from the techs at Ricoh are saying they will only support flaps out.

Something will need to be done at those rollers to fix the issue.

 

[namelessentity]

Have you tried flipping the envelopes 180° to see if it doesn't do it?

 

[Shawnd]

It still would do it, tried that. It would still do it at that same exact spot. We think it is trying to align the media but it instead is tugging on the flap, if those rollers could be turned off it might not happen?

 

[msaeger]

Im telling you, it is happening at the rollers in my picture I posted, we dead stopped the machine and found the exact spot. It has been confirmed as an issue but from the techs at Ricoh are saying they will only support flaps out.

Something will need to be done at those rollers to fix the issue.

Which rollers? In the paper tray?

 

[Shawnd]

Which rollers? In the paper tray?

The picture I posted is of the rollers before the paper transfer unit, is it not showing? I circled the area of interest in red.

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

Have you tried disabling the LED lights on your keyboard?

 

[msaeger]

The picture I posted is of the rollers before the paper transfer unit, is it not showing? I circled the area of interest in red.

Good catch! Sorry I missed it but I see what you mean now. Do you know has anyone tried to turn off main scan registration / cross track / cross feed (whatever you want to call it) I could see it do that when it shifts the paper.

 

[Shawnd]

Good catch! Sorry I missed it but I see what you mean now. Do you know has anyone tried to turn off main scan registration / cross track / cross feed (whatever you want to call it) I could see it do that when it shifts the paper.

Not that I am aware of, how do you do that and I will try it.

 

[Shawnd]

@msaeger I tried the settings you sent and still no go, I still get the dog earing on the envelope. Any other ideas?

 

[farcrowd]

Not that I run either of these machines, but have you tried different envelopes? With our Konica C3080, we ran into an envelope skew issue a couple months back. After some basic troubleshooting with everything looking good - I checked the envelopes for square - they weren't. They were wider at the flap-edge than they were at the bottom edge by almost 1/8". I swapped envelopes and that solved the issue. The press was skew correcting (as it should), but as the narrow feed-edge wasn't square to start with, we ended up with skewed print.

I think you're on to something with the skew adjustment moving the flap and then re-creasing it as it runs through the press. If it was air being introduced into the envelopes, you'd end up with a wrinkling issue and you would also see embossing from the excessive pressure.

The thought also occurs to me that maybe the window has something to do with it - is one side of the envelope dragging under a roller causing the envelope to skew and get refolded? Do you have any of the exact same envelopes without a window that you could test (same die cut/paper/brand)? This comes to mind as we have an Intec CS4000 with basically, a modified Straight Shooter feeder. We prefer to feed long-edge first on that printer, and window envelopes can be a pain due to the varying surface/thickness.