Acrobat CC

[Mikie]

(Mod Edit) no need for attacks.

 

[mattbeals]

For some crazy reason people either don't trust it or understand it. Output Preview for many people is about as much preflight as they do.

 

[Hopkins Printing]

Hi Leonard,

I got the impression that Adobe has some sort of group of users out there that Adobe consults with regarding feature use, UI design, future features, etc. If I wanted to be involved in that group, how would that be achieved? I know I can provide feedback through the Adobe apps but this group seemed closer with Adobe.

Thanks so much,
hp

 

[Schnitzel]

"Well, that escalated quickly."

 

[zoran]

For some crazy reason people either don't trust it or understand it. Output Preview for many people is about as much preflight as they do.

I don;t see anything crazy about it.
You have to have high degree if you want to understand preflight report.
Output Preview is simple, visual tool that is easily understood by many.

 

[zoran]

you didnt address any of my issues leonardr... i hope the pr department is treating you well, you are for sure not a technical person anymore... happy retirement, please retire now you aren't helping any of us.

just one of the technical points you failed at addressing, was the spot colors converted to process in linked files.... go home leonard, you must be drunk.

open, use, close a much needed function of the product, sure Leonard, we got time for that. I can, but why would I need to except for pr people like you that don't actually use the product for production in the print world, and report our needs to the people who actually make decisions at adobe. PR... I hope you get a nice retirement plan, you will need it. And please retire already, you, I say again are not helping any of us.

we are already looking to replace your "stand alone product" for PDF production, and we will share what we find.

ps you are on a print forum, we don't care what your secretaries, lawyers, whatever pr bs you think is going on need.

I am in same boat as you are but there is no need for such attack on Leonard.
It does not mater how much I disagree with Adobe's policies on Software licensing with CC and direction Acrobat is going, I am happy that we have such a knowledgeable person part of our community.
Leonard is great asset and resource, direct connection to Adobe's development team that I appreciate a lot.
Please stop trolling and have decent discussion if you can.
Thanks

 

[rich apollo]

There are checks for all of that. And they can be combined into a single profile that can be run. So you need only check a single check and look at a single report. How much easier do you want

As was stated, it's not just text. There are grayscale images, drop shadows, and many other possibilities.

It's tough to cover all the contingencies in a preflight profile. Even Enfocus finally introduced variables for preflighting.

Prepress folks need to turn the channels on and off. In that arena it's a basic, core function. You cannot replace that function with a preflight.

Flames and scurrilous attacks will not further your agenda, Mikie. We have the responsibility in this discussion to convince Leonard that our viewpoint is legitimate. Just because someone says something does not mean he is obligated to accept it as fact.

 

[brent]

Brent, we are NOT talking about the Creative Cloud here. We are talking about Adobe Acrobat Professional which is sold primarily as a separate product, but also to be included in the CC.

Yes we are. The problem is that we as print "professionals" need the entire CC package, not just acrobat. So from a Print perspective, Acrobat IS part of CC, and CC is a mess right now.

It's been out for how long? I haven't seen one customer bring in a job using CC. Which is crazy because in the past, within a week of a new version, our shop would be receiving files using that new version. Very telling in my opinion. I guess that is good for us because for now, we have no plans on upgrading to CC, until Adobe gets their act together. I am really amazed at all the problems with this new release. This is the first time ever, that we have not upgraded our software to the current Version. And I know alot of shops are doing the same. Crazy.

 

[leonardr]

I got the impression that Adobe has some sort of group of users out there that Adobe consults with regarding feature use, UI design, future features, etc. If I wanted to be involved in that group, how would that be achieved? I know I can provide feedback through the Adobe apps but this group seemed closer with Adobe

We have alpha and beta testers for our products, who certainly provide us with feedback. However, at the same time, forums such as this and and elsewhere also factor into our product specs and designs. Some of the print-oriented features in Acrobat XI came directly from this forum!

 

[leonardr]

I just want to thank everyone for the discussion. As someone who doesn't have ink under their fingernails - the only way I learn about the needs of those that do is to talk. Online, in person, etc.

I can certainly understand the use cases for wanting this "flipping the plates" and maybe we'll be able to find something in the future to make things better for you...If so - you can certainly say that it was do to all of your help!

 

[mattbeals]

I don;t see anything crazy about it.
You have to have high degree if you want to understand preflight report.
Output Preview is simple, visual tool that is easily understood by many.

Turning the separations off and on is an effective method, absolutely agree. But the built in preflight tools don't require a degree. Nor do the other preflight tools you rely on. It's a differently worded way to reach the same information. It's hard because it is not what you are used to. The built in tools are highly functional and effective. -IF- you choose to use them.

 

[zoran]

Turning the separations off and on is an effective method, absolutely agree. But the built in preflight tools don't require a degree. Nor do the other preflight tools you rely on. It's a differently worded way to reach the same information. It's hard because it is not what you are used to. The built in tools are highly functional and effective. -IF- you choose to use them.

I agree Matt 100% and I do use Preflight report religiously but I still use Output Preview with separations as a quick visual way to check certain file, page, etc.. much faster than running preflight to look at report.
I guess both ways have a place in my daily routine and I don't see it changing any time soon.

 

[almaink]

I just want to thank everyone for the discussion. As someone who doesn't have ink under their fingernails - the only way I learn about the needs of those that do is to talk. Online, in person, etc.

I can certainly understand the use cases for wanting this "flipping the plates" and maybe we'll be able to find something in the future to make things better for you...If so - you can certainly say that it was do to all of your help!

Thanks for at lest listening to us. It's a shame you can't spend a week with a prepress monkey, it would be a real eye opener for you I'm sure.

 

[Shawn]

I just want to thank everyone for the discussion. As someone who doesn't have ink under their fingernails - the only way I learn about the needs of those that do is to talk. Online, in person, etc.

I can certainly understand the use cases for wanting this "flipping the plates" and maybe we'll be able to find something in the future to make things better for you...If so - you can certainly say that it was do to all of your help!

Hi Leonard

We use tons of preflight profiles, but we also "flip the plates" all the time. Most users find it more intuitive to "see" the issues instead of being "told" by preflight. Besides checking blacks, we also use it to look for trapping issues, where the automatic traps may not be correct. Not sure how a preflight profile could show that.

So we would really appreciate anything you could do to make that more intuitive and quicker. (Would love to see keyboard shortcuts for the channels like in Photoshop).

And thank you for contributing. Even if many of us don't agree with Adobe policies or like the "Office-ication" of the interface we do appreciate the time and effort you make to be here.

Shawn

 

[Stephen Marsh]

A word of caution:

If you happen to have RGB in the file, in the separations output preview using the standard composite colour view - simply turning the separations off/on may be misleading. Doing so will show the RGB elements as CMYK, when they are really RGB (it is showing you the potential for CMYK through a conversion, either using the simulation profile or an output intent).

One has to change the drop down menu "Show: All" to "Show: RGB" etc.

One can also use the Object Insepctor option, which indicates what the current element's colour mode actually is - rather than what the potential colour would be when converted to the Simulation or Output Intent profile. A neutral R=G=B element such as text can preview that it will become rich black, which can be misleading. When using the Acrobat Pro Convert Colours tool, there is a conversion option to "preserve black" - which will create a 0cmy100k black from 0r0g0b element such as MS Word "black" text.

I personally like to cycle through all of the various "Show" menu options (for a visual check), as well as run preflight profiles (for a non visual check).


Stephen Marsh

 

[Mikie]

My post was a bit harsh towards leonard and I do apologize to you. it is too late to reword it politely now. I became a little annoyed when he told me the product wasn't meant for me, but a large group of random "professionals", and then proceeded to tell me I was using it incorrectly. With Adobe products these days, I have no choice but to use them in prepress(for now). I never received any feedback on my issues of a preflight report alerting me to Pantone colors converted to spot colors in linked files, or CMYK(RGB,LAB) images that were needed to just be K.

All I really wanted was to express my desire that the separation preview was important, and it would be very nice if it stayed open upon quitting the program.

Also, if I were trolling I would make a thread here claiming CC was the most awesome piece of software ever sold to me, how we were able to eliminate 3 prepress operators because of it's awesomeness and that I wished I could pay more for it's features.

 

[leonardr]

My post was a bit harsh towards leonard and I do apologize to you. it is too late to reword it politely now.

Apology accepted - and not to worry, I've got a pretty thick skin after manning forums for decades .

I never received any feedback on my issues of a preflight report alerting me to Pantone colors converted to spot colors in linked files, or CMYK(RGB,LAB) images that were needed to just be K.

By the time the colors get to PDF, we have no idea about linked files or that things were converted . That can only be done in the original source file(s).

Images are an interesting problem, not just for K-only but alo for various other tests that users have expressed interest in seeing. We've got a list and we try to add things in as time & resources permit.

All I really wanted was to express my desire that the separation preview was important, and it would be very nice if it stayed open upon quitting the program.

So noted!

 

[Mikie]

By the time the colors get to PDF, we have no idea about linked files or that things were converted . That can only be done in the original source file(s).

Which is why to some of us the Separation preview pane is so important, and why we feel it needs to be able to remain static at all times. A lot of the time, I am supplied only a pdf file and I must check it with every tool I have. Because there are still holes in any preflight report, I and others chose to check most things with visual tools.

We care what is going to be on each of the separations in regards to what is being image on the plates. At our digital only plant, it is of less concern until click charges come into play. An example would be, 200k of an 8 page brochure that had an errant image that produced 4 clicks on an Indigo press, vrs the 1 click that it was quoted as. I get in trouble for this loss in profit, and I am only supplied a pdf file. Multiply this issue over several jobs a day.

Our methods for checking final print files may seem silly in this day and age of programming, and "how things should be". But believe me my friend, a lot of us till deal with noobs who don't know how to set up a print file correctly. <-- see the irony? It is all relative

 

[kaiserwilhelm]

As to the entire "interface" concept. Could Adobe not make a simple "click" preference that gives me the "Secretary" vs the "Print Professional" look?
If you read through the six pages of the forum, the overriding issue with Acrobat Professional XX (after 9.55) is that it looks like something a child developed. All of our favorite features are hidden and hard to access.
As the originator of this thread, I can tell you that I did indeed download V 11. I ran it for an hour and put it away. It just makes my life too difficult.

 

[Possumgal]

Personal opinion here.

Do you really think Adobe can be all things to all people? What is it that you expecting that is making you so indignant? Where's the outrage with Apple and their shifting fonts and color management changes? Relax, there's plenty of functionality in Acrobat Pro XI for print production. We are not the center of the PDF world as much as we would like to think we are.

But you know, not too long ago they had different versions. Standard for the secretaries and others, and Professional, for the professionals. Can't be all things to all people? They used to serve most of them pretty well.