Adobe, I only ask one small favor

[tparker]

Adobe; please combine Photoshop and Illustrator for my packaging and flexo work into one program (PhotoStrator) and also work on some real trapping functions like Deskpacks and send me your rip for free and I'll be all set....Thanks

 

[mschilling]

lol, I kinda like it the way it is. Keep ps for retouching, and illust for everything else. Don't bother with spot colour support in ps, illust already has that!

 

[T]

lol, I kinda like it the way it is. Keep ps for retouching, and illust for everything else. Don't bother with spot colour support in ps, illust already has that!

You must be a designer if you don't think ps needs spot color support..

 

[mschilling]

Actually I'm not a designer. Adobe didn't add spot colour support to ps for a reason, since now, years later at version 10 or so, it still is barely there in ps. Meanwhile Illust. has had gorgeous updates with special effects and dynamic editing of objects interacting with spot colours, so what does that tell you? Illust is where you should be, using those colours, with ps used for images almost exclusively.

 

[T]

And images don't need spot colors?

 

[mschilling]

Not usually. Some print processes need all spot colours e.g., plastic tubs. Problem with spots in images is that not many people can predict what they will ultimately look like when printed. Kodak approvals are such an expensive way to experiment too. You can also use spot colours to add highlights to some images as well, but generally images are best left to process colours. I meant the background, drop shadows, glows, etc., are better done in Illust. where you can have them on top of spot colours without being a pita.

 

[leonardr]

You can create spot plates in Photoshop just fine - and have been able to for many versions. That's how folks product Duotones...

What am I missing?

 

[phantasm]

You can create spot plates in Photoshop just fine - and have been able to for many versions. That's how folks product Duotones...

What am I missing?

Must admit my sentiments are with leonardr... to me PS has all the basic spot handling required. Sure - it would be great to see arbitrary spot ink separations, etc., but these tend to be too specialised for the core Adobe market. And sorry to say - but a new wizzy 3D paint brush or dynamic resizing (as per PS CS4) would help sell a few more copies.

I personally try to keep as much spot work to Ai - it is much easier to keep this nice and editable/dynamic. And as since Ai CS3 device-N images could be handled (and created via rasterization) it's moving along very nicely in the right direction. Next I would like to see arbitrary (ie. device-N) color swatches in Ai...

All the best,

Nick

 

[mschilling]

And as since Ai CS3 device-N images could be handled (and created via rasterization) it's moving along very nicely in the right direction. Next I would like to see arbitrary (ie. device-N) color swatches in Ai...

Nick

What is a device-N image? I've heard/read that term before. I agree about the editing of objects that are among spot colours. Illustrator works great. Also special effects can be created using spot colours in Illust., but not in ps, without all kinds of labour. The only advantage that comes to mind with spot colours and images in ps, is the ability to use the built-in trapping that ps has. Also, for flexo, a minimum and maximum dot can be controlled (easily).

 

[T]

I was being sarcastic. I use spot colors in ps all the time. That's why I couldn't figure anyone would not want that capability?

Don't bother with spot colour support in ps, illust already has that!

 

[mschilling]

It's not that I don't want spot colour support in ps, I just don't want Adobe to bother increasing spot colour support in ps. That would just confuse things for workflow directors (they have a hard enough time already). I'm biased bc I'm not a ps guru, haha. Ya, I ignored the sarcasm, but really, there needs to be a little Bart Simpson smiley to denote that, dont u think?

 

[phantasm]

What is a device-N image? I've heard/read that term before.

Device-N helps remove some of the constraints of specifying composite artwork for print to merely CMYK. Traditionally there were Greyscale, RGB and CMYK images. Considering that RGB isn't for print and Greyscale just does what it says on the tin, Device-N images can be defined using any process and/or spot ink. So, for example, if your company logo is constructed from process black and spot orange, you could export your logo as a single Black + Pantone [X] device-N image.

This has been possible for many years with the likes of Photoshop where images could be exported as TIFFs (or native PS files) with CMYK + Spot channels. It may be that there are multiple spot channels and each CMYK channel is empty, but the end result ise the same.

Beforehand, one popular method was to use DCS EPS files to go beyond CMYK. But these are a complete pain to handle and process; for example, it is impossible to embed a DCS EPS file into Illustrator. Sadly, it remains the rock-bed of many workflows - but hopefully it will be replaced by much more manageable device-N solutions.

(Oh - and I am donning my hard hat as I know the DCS EPS topic can cause a lot of aggravation ;-)

The only advantage that comes to mind with spot colours and images in ps, is the ability to use the built-in trapping that ps has.

Trapping raster artwork is soooooo much easier than attempting to maintain vector artwork whilst trapping. I personally feel the best place for trapping is at the RIP stage; once the huge images have been generated that eventually form the basis of the final output, it is here that trapping can be applied with least issues. IMHO.

But I realise that specialist trapping is required in some higher-end circumstances, hence the availability of specialist trapping tools.

Also, for flexo, a minimum and maximum dot can be controlled (easily).

Finger's crossed that it may be possible in Ai in the near future.

Best wishes,

Nick

 

[tparker]

spots in photoshop

spots in photoshop

The issue I have with spot ct channels is that they are flattened.
I would like it if you could have more than one spot channel of the same name and have different elements on them as in base (common elements) and different versions. I don't know of a rip that will combine them. 95% of my work has at least 2 spots channels in Photoshop.

 

[tparker]

Pretrapping

Pretrapping

I pretrap everything in Illi and Photoshop and whenever we pickup old files for revisions it is already done and no worries about repeatability.

 

[tparker]

nexus spots

nexus spots

We are using Nexus 8.4 and if you have spot effects in Illi over process from Pthsp the Illi spot elements turn to process when ripping ( vector and raster).

 

[leonardr]

What is a device-N image? I've heard/read that term before. .

DeviceN is the technical term for how multi-channel colorants are stored in a PDF document. For example, if you have an image in Photoshop that is CMYK+1spot, that would be saved into a PDF as a DeviceN image, where N==5 (5 channels). Of course, N can be as small as 1 and as large as 32 - and they each channel can either be a process channel or a spot channel.

Leonard

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

I thought trapping was best done at the RIP. Ai n PS doing the tango with spots n not missing a beat for my work add Phantasms plugg for AI so that you can edit PS links from illy, n ur all rdy to go, well the free rip was the problem, hmm hope they don't want to sell my work for free so that i'll have to go without bread.

 

[tparker]

pre-trapping

pre-trapping

when using only pthsp and illi pre-trapping has become our most efficient option due to the revision process as in a year later picking up the job and trapping it identically is not needed.
Once its done its done and the printers have the option of receiving native files from us at any time during the process.........