? Best Means To Create Equal Ink Dwell Time with a Printing Machine ?

[joyce]

[FONT=&quot]Actually and I shall elaborate a bit...........just a bit for starter. INK & COVERAGE.

Case Scenario: We began with the Heidelberg XL105 40" 6 units with a coater as stated in original post. First we must define the total possible for 100% solid. Let's stick with 4/c process, K-C-M-Y. This is where the theory would be of most importance. Each unit, plate, ink coverage will be different for each form. So the maximum solid coverage for each color is 26 x 40" or 1040 sq. inches (close enough to impress the point here). So, if we know exactly how much of that 1040 inches is for each form and each color, we could in theory adjust each process ink for pigment content in order to keep the dwell time of each ink the same. It is not so fa fetched. I hope you are beginning to grasp and be open minded about the concept. Further a solid coverage printing the full 1040 sq., inches would require the FULL STRENGTH process ink. Based on any coverage less than that, an extender would be added (hopefully mechanically) to accommodate the lighter coverage. The extender, varnish, or transparent white (it does not matter what you call it) is the critical ingredient of the equation. Not only would it be a weaker entity naturally, it would be critical for it to not change or disturb the inherent rheological properties of the process ink(s). You would make each process color equal for rheological properties which include TACK, VISCOSITY, FLOW, SHORTNESS RATIO and TRANSFER RATE (governed by the same vehicle, of course). Now skeptics before you holler, remember, unitack or in this case uniproerty inks/extender would not be sacrificed for printability. The time between succeeding units as each ink kisses the substrate is plenty enough to still produce good trap and reproduction. Again, this is not as fantastical as one may think. It simply would be having the knowledge of the total square inches for each ink and mechanically adjusting your ink strength to accommodate the same ink thickness and dwell time of residence on the press, fountain ball to substrate.

Now I know there are much greater technologies that are being developed that jet micronized pigment encapsulations onto a sheet such as the Benny project; however my idea is taking an already proven print technology (offset; undeniably the highest quality) and lifting it to a newer, higher level for print performance and excellence.

Not a sermon, just a thought.

D Ink Man [/FONT]

Where did this come from? I see no logic in this. If I have 10% image on the plate I must use a different pigment load than a 42% image on the plate!!! This makes no sense.

 

[D Ink Man]

green printer, green print, joyce; Keep an open mind for the man upstairs sake! I never said that this was developed, no not nearly at all has it been developed. The pigment strength loads for changing forms is a complete unknown. Much research and development would have to be executed to drive it to fruition. The strength differences may be subtle, however the goal or target would again be to deliver the SAME INK FILM, the SAME INK RESIDENCE TIME in/on PRESS to create a lithographic utopic situation. This project would require capital, dedication, great ink technology as well as fount to try to embark on. It would be a wonderful project for a well endowed entrepaneur to strive after. An institutiuon like the Rochester Institute of Technolgy would be a wonderful setting for pursuit of a project such as this. No one has invested in it or pursued it. Only the brainstorming and logical suggestion has been presented and has so far mostly hit a brick wall with 'why it cannot be done' or compression in understanding the benefits.

This world and country was not founded and nurtured by people who found reasons why something could not work. The pioneers found the passage and the way to get it done.

Now if you want to latch onto something like the Benny project, than more power to you. I am not saying absolutely sure that this nano technology will or will not work. But we might all be worm dung in my opinion if it were ever come to fruition. Just my thoughts.

Remember, we are much more than half way there!

Respectfully,

D Ink Man

 

[Green Printer]

D Ink Man

Study this for the mechanics IPC http://www.amerikal.com/

 

[D Ink Man]

and.... ? I know Mr. Danielson casually and personally. Quite the innovator. D

 

[D Ink Man]

Woe is me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxHnRfhDmrk

 

[Green Printer]

Woe is me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxHnRfhDmrk

as usual your logic is illogical

 

[Schnitzel]

This world and country was not founded and nurtured by people who found reasons why something could not work. The pioneers found the passage and the way to get it done.

Yet on every post you mention Benny Landa, you bash him personally and his project obsessively and say it will never work.

That's a model example of hypocrisy. Think about that in heavy cerebral mode, please.

 

[D Ink Man]

Schnitzel I don't bash Benny personally. WRONG! And one question to you; IS IT WORKING? I think the $ invested into is working; just don't know for what. Again, IS IT WORKING? How many miracle presses are installed and producing work that can be sold and profited upon? Thought so. Thanks for the interlude.

D

 

[Schnitzel]

The presses have not been released yet into the market. Of course there are no presses installed yet - they are in development. Surely you can understand this simple logic.

 

[D Ink Man]

Was DRUPA 2012 overhyped? Thought so.

 

[aqazi81]

Was DRUPA 2012 overhyped? Thought so.

Just wait for the upcoming Drupa.

 

[Schnitzel]

Was DRUPA 2012 overhyped? Thought so.

Sorry, are you answering your own questions? That makes arguing with you pointless.

 

[D Ink Man]

There is no argument. The writing is on the wall and EVERYONE can read it. Most all people here are literate, VERY.

 

[turbotom1052]

properly made ink will transfer the same amount of pigment per unit area of the plate image whatever the coverage

In theory this sounds reasonable, BUT...... ever print a form with the smallest little bit of coverage, and have to feed so much ink into the rollers you find yourself wondering where the hell all the ink is going? Ive encounters this phenomenon many times and have been shocked by the presses ability to print in balance without the need to wash up due to over emulsification on the rollers.

 

[aqazi81]

In theory this sounds reasonable, BUT...... ever print a form with the smallest little bit of coverage, and have to feed so much ink into the rollers you find yourself wondering where the hell all the ink is going? Ive encounters this phenomenon many times and have been shocked by the presses ability to print in balance without the need to wash up due to over emulsification on the rollers.

Little out of topic but how can we prevent over inking or over emulsification on very low coverage jobs?

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

Little out of topic but how can we prevent over inking or over emulsification on very low coverage jobs?

Here's one suggestion that I have installed on some older Komori and Heidelberg presses.

Check your ink key zero set, you only need a very fine ink film at zero just for lubrication to avoid metal on metal contact of blade and ink ball. Consider installing a ink ductor interrupter, a cheap electical modification that allows you to set your ink ductor with a delay in it so you are not feeding ink every cycle, this allows you to carry a decent ink film on your fountain without overloading the rollers on low coverage jobs.

 

[D Ink Man]

I believe that we are getting very good replies now with guidance to provide possible resolutions. Thank you to everybody for your input. As can be seen here, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

D

 

[Green Printer]

Komori's built after 1998 have an ink ductor control. You can set it to stroke at any number of press revolutions

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Consider installing a ink ductor interrupter, a cheap electical modification that allows you to set your ink ductor with a delay in it so you are not feeding ink every cycle, this allows you to carry a decent ink film on your fountain without overloading the rollers on low coverage jobs.[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]

This can help in some situations but IMO it is not a good solution with respect to press design. Controlling low coverage and avoiding over inking are important issues for control and the reduction of waste and there are press design concepts that can greatly help. I won't go into them here since it has no practical benefit for those with existing press designs.

The weakness of the above approach is that one can have very low coverage on one side of the plate (gear side) and high coverage on the other side (operator side). The interrupter method probably will have problems supplying the high coverage side with enough ink.

If the interrupter method on a press was able to supply enough ink to the high coverage also, then there might be an issue with the density of the high coverage having a bit more variation due to the less often supply of higher amounts of ink from the ink fountain and ductor. High coverage requires a more continuos ink feed because it is being taken out of the press so fast, while low coverage can have ink fed on a much more non continuous basis since the ink goes out of the press so slowly.

I have been told that in the old days, press operators sometimes turned the ink fountain off and just applied some ink occasionally to the roller train with an ink knife for images that had very low coverage all the way across the plate. Not recommended while the press is running due to being a dangerous thing to do.

Oscillation should help move excess ink from regions of low coverage but oscillation does not move ink laterally on press very effectively. It does help smooth out ink differences in local areas.

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

This can help in some situations but IMO it is not a good solution with respect to press design.

This worked for us when low coverage was needed across the sheet. Running high coverage next to low coverage would be an issue and we did not employ the interrupter in those cases.
Dabbing ink on the rollers of a moving press is not only dangerous as you say but the colour variation would be horrendous.
Once our pressmen learnt how to use and trust this modification it worked quite successfully. On an older technology press there was not much one could do to improve the equipment at the time.