C6500 w/ Fiery IC-303 - Screening Choices

[Emgee]

To the C6500 expert users & techs...

We have a C6500 Pro w/ Fiery System 8 v1.1, been running quite well. Banding issues, which get annoying, but overall a decent machine. It's our first color printer so we're learning as we go and changing how we do things as we go.

Could someone explain to me the various screen options available? Dot 1, Dot 2, Line 1, Line 2? When to choose one over the other? Advantages/Disadvantages of each?

I've been just using Dot 1. Only recently did I try Line 2 on a job because it didn't show as many problems/issues in large areas of solid color. Although, I have to say that solids are not this unit's strong point.

Thanks all.

Emgee

 

[UberTech]

To the C6500 expert users & techs...

We have a C6500 Pro w/ Fiery System 8 v1.1, been running quite well. Banding issues, which get annoying, but overall a decent machine. It's our first color printer so we're learning as we go and changing how we do things as we go.

Could someone explain to me the various screen options available? Dot 1, Dot 2, Line 1, Line 2? When to choose one over the other? Advantages/Disadvantages of each?

I've been just using Dot 1. Only recently did I try Line 2 on a job because it didn't show as many problems/issues in large areas of solid color. Although, I have to say that solids are not this unit's strong point.

Thanks all.

Emgee

In the pervious model (c500) the DOT screen was the best screen to use so by default we usually get customers to use this. However it is coming more and more common place to use LINE1 as the default as the difference between DOT1 and LINE1 is negligible for bitmaps. Also LINE1 is much better at reproducing solid halftones and usually resolves a bit of banding.

My suggestion to you is to fill an SRA3 with a green. Print it using DOT1 then print it using LINE1. You will be amazed at the difference. The colour will be slightly different. The reason for that is you must calibrate to what screen you are using. The RIP is only capable of holding a calibration set for one screen so if you decide to run with LINE1 you must calibrate to LINE1.On your fiey when you go to print the calibration chart there is an options button under this there is the options for screen choice, hidden away for some reason.

Another thing you should try, and most people don’t know this. The DOT2 and LINE2 screens can have 2 types. TYPE2 for DOT2 brings the screening down to and is similar to that off an offset press. I have shown this type of screening to an offset operator and he was blown away so you should try it. This is a setting on the engine and it is buried deep in the expert adjustments.

Utility -> Machine Admin Setting -> System Setting -> Expert Adjust -> Quality Adjust -> Custom screen -> set DOT2 pattern to type 2.

You comments about poor solids are puzzling to me, as I have always heard this is a strong point to this engine. Do you mean that the solids are bandy and inconsistent or just not solid enough?

 

[Emgee]

Thanks UberTech. I'll do a bunch of trials using the information you provided and see the results for myself.

...
The reason for that is you must calibrate to what screen you are using. The RIP is only capable of holding a calibration set for one screen so if you decide to run with LINE1 you must calibrate to LINE1.
...

Ah, I wondered about that. That's good to know.

Another thing you should try, and most people don’t know this. The DOT2 and LINE2 screens can have 2 types. TYPE2 for DOT2 brings the screening down to and is similar to that off an offset press. I have shown this type of screening to an offset operator and he was blown away so you should try it. This is a setting on the engine and it is buried deep in the expert adjustments.

Utility -> Machine Admin Setting -> System Setting -> Expert Adjust -> Quality Adjust -> Custom screen -> set DOT2 pattern to type 2.

Indeed I will. I have several prints we've done recently, varying from photographic to line-art, etc. I'll run the various screens and check out the results.

You comments about poor solids are puzzling to me, as I have always heard this is a strong point to this engine. Do you mean that the solids are bandy and inconsistent or just not solid enough?

Bandy and inconsistent. Noticed most on heavier/thicker stock (we use 202 gsm (coated 1-side) and 216 gsm (uncoated) stock). I've run long grain and short, both exhibit the bandiness. It's not horrible looking, average consumer wouldn't notice it, but we do...

Thanks for the info!

Emgee

 

[jbh]

Ubertech,

just wanted to say a huge THANK YOU for the Dot 2 type 2 information. I'm running a KM6500, 2.4 million clicks, and I've been trying to get a halftone for the last 22 months. I read your post, went to the machine, 2 mins later I'm printing with a beautiful screen! FANTASTIC! I cannot believe the difference it makes to quite a lot of my jobs. In fact, since I re-calibrated with the new screen, the overall quality has vastly improved.
I have a cosmetics magazine proof from a couple of years ago that has perfect repro, and would print really well on my Xerox machines, but when I sent this file down with the new screen, it's now mindblowing on the KM6500!
So, in short, your little tip in this forum has saved this machine from being replaced!
Thanks - James.

 

[UberTech]

No problem, happy to help. It does look impressive on the right jobs.

 

[exify]

In the pervious model (c500) the DOT screen was the best screen to use so by default we usually get customers to use this. However it is coming more and more common place to use LINE1 as the default as the difference between DOT1 and LINE1 is negligible for bitmaps. Also LINE1 is much better at reproducing solid halftones and usually resolves a bit of banding.

My suggestion to you is to fill an SRA3 with a green. Print it using DOT1 then print it using LINE1. You will be amazed at the difference. The colour will be slightly different. The reason for that is you must calibrate to what screen you are using. The RIP is only capable of holding a calibration set for one screen so if you decide to run with LINE1 you must calibrate to LINE1.On your fiey when you go to print the calibration chart there is an options button under this there is the options for screen choice, hidden away for some reason.

Another thing you should try, and most people don’t know this. The DOT2 and LINE2 screens can have 2 types. TYPE2 for DOT2 brings the screening down to and is similar to that off an offset press. I have shown this type of screening to an offset operator and he was blown away so you should try it. This is a setting on the engine and it is buried deep in the expert adjustments.

Utility -> Machine Admin Setting -> System Setting -> Expert Adjust -> Quality Adjust -> Custom screen -> set DOT2 pattern to type 2.

You comments about poor solids are puzzling to me, as I have always heard this is a strong point to this engine. Do you mean that the solids are bandy and inconsistent or just not solid enough?

Is there any illustration of the differences or do I just have to print a file and test it out?

 

[dking]

Utility -> Machine Admin Setting -> System Setting -> Expert Adjust -> Quality Adjust -> Custom screen -> set DOT2 pattern to type 2.

I'm having trouble finding this.

Where exactly do I look?

 

[suess]

Hello

We tried this setting at our shop changed to Type2 for DOT and re-ripped a job with Dot2 and saw an improvement in the screens (a plus) but it appears it comes with a negative effect in text/font output from what we good see. Almost as if the text became slightly pixeled and not as smooth as Dot1.. any help would be appreciated. We have not tried Type2 for the Line screens yet.

 

[marsh2]

Hi

Dot compared to line. line will give you great colour and better colour consistancy but as you have seen the pixulation of text thats because the toner is laid in a 45 degrees lines if you look closly you will see the line. dot give less pixal problems and clearer text but has a differing colour reproduction i recommend leaving on dot but the choice is yours. The latest firmware has an extra screen call yellow and it is only recommended for the C6501 but if your firmware is update them maybe you should try this screen i havent tried it myself yet to see. This screen is a dip switch within service mode so a tech will need to do it. The Banding is it running lead edge to trail or front to back as copy comes out. If lead to trail and little fine bands then the transfer rollers within the transfer unit will need brasso as per KM Japan recommendation. It may also have scored the transfer belt if this has not been done before also it is important to keep these metal rollers clean to stop these bands returning and for the belts to reach there proper life. If the banding is the other ie front to back make sure you tech resets all data to the installation stored settings. Then do the four adjustments in expert adjustment under adjustment on the machine screen. If the bands are still there after this then continue to run the first adjustment Auto Gamma Adjust until they dissapear this could take as many as ten times. Also make sure your machine is set to auto power off and dont switch your machine of a night let it switch its self off after a couple of hours. I believe there have been ozone issues which devevlop by doing big runs then switching the machine off this makes the machine get to hot because no cooling fans to cool machine after a run. So it is good practise to get into not switching it off.

Hope this has helped bit hard with no examples.

regards

 

[Emgee]

I've been following the posts and good information coming through; this is great.

I've tried the Dot2/Type2 and it looks really nice on some of our print jobs, as Ubertech said it would look better on some than others. As suess mentioned, text isn't as smooth; but the trade-off on some jobs is worth it because as a whole the print looks better with Dot2/Type2.

@marsh2

Thanks for the information regarding shutdown. I don't shut the machine down until well after we're done for the day, but I'll configure it so that it powers down itself instead.

As for the bands - I see them front to back (crosstrack?) I run the first two expert adjustments (gamma and color registration) first thing before starting any jobs for the day. But just once. I'll try running the gamma several times the next time I run a job that shows banding and see if repeated gamma cycles help with the bands.

Thanks for the suggestions and pointers!

If I get some prints exhibiting the bands, I'll scan and post (if they show up well enough).

 

[Klew]

grainy solids

grainy solids

In the pervious model (c500) the DOT screen was the best screen to use so by default we usually get customers to use this. However it is coming more and more common place to use LINE1 as the default as the difference between DOT1 and LINE1 is negligible for bitmaps. Also LINE1 is much better at reproducing solid halftones and usually resolves a bit of banding.

My suggestion to you is to fill an SRA3 with a green. Print it using DOT1 then print it using LINE1. You will be amazed at the difference. The colour will be slightly different. The reason for that is you must calibrate to what screen you are using. The RIP is only capable of holding a calibration set for one screen so if you decide to run with LINE1 you must calibrate to LINE1.On your fiey when you go to print the calibration chart there is an options button under this there is the options for screen choice, hidden away for some reason.

Another thing you should try, and most people don’t know this. The DOT2 and LINE2 screens can have 2 types. TYPE2 for DOT2 brings the screening down to and is similar to that off an offset press. I have shown this type of screening to an offset operator and he was blown away so you should try it. This is a setting on the engine and it is buried deep in the expert adjustments.

Utility -> Machine Admin Setting -> System Setting -> Expert Adjust -> Quality Adjust -> Custom screen -> set DOT2 pattern to type 2.

You comments about poor solids are puzzling to me, as I have always heard this is a strong point to this engine. Do you mean that the solids are bandy and inconsistent or just not solid enough?

@Ubertech
i tried ur suggestion to fill an SRA3 with a green and print with the different screen, i cant really tell the difference apart from all the lines that are running the length of the paper. the green is not solid, its looks very grainy and on the left hand side the green has faded, my tech has tried to change the density but to no joy, with grays it even worse.

ive got a 6501 with embedded fiery and only got the machine a month ago and have 100k done already but my tech does seem to know how to fix it.

can anyone help me out on this one.

thanks klew

 

[mj436]

has anyone tried this?

has anyone tried this?

The latest firmware has an extra screen call yellow and it is only recommended for the C6501 but if your firmware is update them maybe you should try this screen i havent tried it myself yet to see. This screen is a dip switch within service mode so a tech will need to do it.

hi

has anyone had a go at this - does it make dot 2 a finer screen?

cheers