Chinese brand cutters...what do you think

Digital Press Guy

Well-known member
Your first consideration should be to remember that the West Coast US ports are essentially shut down due to a labor action. There is no telling when that will be resolved and how long it might delay any shipment from China.

A quick look at their website still doesn't answer my first question, is the programmable display in English? The electrics seem to be European specs (50Hz) so you'd need to deal with that. There is a lot of good hardware made in China and sold under other brands from Japan or the US. There are many that aren't so good as well.

Good luck.
 

Tim-Ellis

Well-known member
We have a small Chinese flexo press. The machine is ok. The instruction manual was less than helpful.
 

Craig

Well-known member
I'd stick with Challange, I bought a 305TC and love it. It's so easy to operate anyone here can use it, even the CSR can cut simple stuff.
 

easiprint

Well-known member
I bought one of these a couple of years ago, but was less than impressed. Tried to use it for about a week until we gave up and went back to our old Ideal trimmer. These Chinese models are very cheaply made and it shows - not accurate in their sizing and feel flimsy. Our one also kept tripping our main electric fuse box a few times a day so in the end I returned it at my expense to the seller. Just had no confidence in it, and for it to trip the fuse box that often, there was obviously a problem there.
 

Eighty7

Member
For the price, these Chinese brand cutters, look too good to be true.
What do you guys think?

For the Chinese branded cutters I've seen here in the US, when they have a part fail it is near impossible to get a replacement part. That's only one reason the company I work for doesn't sell them. The other reason is we sell machinery that is known in the print world by manufacturers that stand behind their equipment and have established service and parts support here in the US.

I know that name brand items that the general public use (Apple, Android, etc.) are all made in China, but the parent company controls manufacturing and quality control tightly to meet Western standards. These Chinese branded machines that are of unknown origin don't have the same support behind them. So far anyway.

I'd ask your local equipment and service company to give you quotes and or payment plans on a cutter they sell and support. If you buy an unsupportable brand from overseas, you're likely not going to have anyone able to support your machine when it needs a repair. Which may be 6 months or 2 years.

If a part is not available in 2 years, what is one to do?
 
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simon yeung

Member
If you want to repair it 360 days per year please buy one and you will know what fu*** chinese is doing at their fu** country china every day. There is a Chinese saying that "In china there is nothing real stuff but cheater" I believe this saying and suffer it a lot, good luck buddy.
 

cielab

Member
I have no information on a cutter but run a Chinese UV coater. Ordering a part or reading the manual is a huge challenge. Its usually charades with emailing pictures and frustrations to get the wrong part after trying to supply absolutely everything as articulate as possible.
 

Mstrkey

Member
Another local shop in my town bought some brand of China knock off brand cutter. The name escapes me right now. The frame literally broke on their first cut. It was basically useless after that. I would stick with the more expensive brand name machines. :/
 

Tomtech

Well-known member
Why not fix the 305? The motor could be repaired or replaced. Challenge no longer supports older equipment for parts or technical advice, but there may be an independent service tech that could help with fixing the micro-cut or replacing it with an after market device.
 

Tomtech

Well-known member
I believe they support them for about 25 years. If you go to their website you can find the manual for your machine and if it is not supported it should let you know.

tomtech
.
 

Buntpapier

Well-known member
Hi dabob!

Confirm to US law the company who modifies a machine is from that moment responsible for the whole safety concept of this machine. Does C&P certify the new safety concept for the modified cutter in written?

Buntpapier
 

Buntpapier

Well-known member
Hi David!

Yes, Triumph is Ideal and from Germany. From Germany as well you have the Baum cutter, which is made by Polar.

Buntpapier
 

dabob

Well-known member
Hi dabob!

Confirm to US law the company who modifies a machine is from that moment responsible for the whole safety concept of this machine. Does C&P certify the new safety concept for the modified cutter in written?

Buntpapier

As far as I know ( and I've been doing this here in the USA sing the 70's) as long as you do not remove or modify the "safety" devices and limit your work to repairs to motors, hydraulics, and existing electrical components its never been an issue, and yes I have had visits from OSHA. Kluge does not support their older "non-copliant" presses any more for that reason but they are still all over the industry being repaired by local machine shops and electricians. It sounds like your government is in collusion with the manufacturers for a rapid deployment of built in obsolescence . . . .

Also . . there as still Linotypes operating . . I had several and every time OSHA came in they more or less ran the other way since there was no possible way to make them safe . . . that is OSHA safe . . so it was more of less Grandfathered in since it met the safety issues at its date of manufacturer (which there were none) lol
 
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Buntpapier

Well-known member
Hi dabob

I am not a lawyer for sure. I only know for example the following:
Osha 1910.212 – General requirements for all machines
as well as
ISO 13849-1:1999 [2], ISO 14121:1999 [3], ISO 12100-1:2003 [4], EN 1010-1:2004 [5] and ISO 11161:2007 [6]
and
Product Design and Post-Manufacture Alteration: The Law of Subsequent Modification in New York State (403 N.E.2d 440, 443).

And if I understand this information’s correct the equipment liability has to meet certain standards and moves from the manufacture to the person who does the modification.
Until there is no accident everything is okay. I think the customer should know what he is doing. He should know as well, that he is alone in case of an accident.

Buntpapier
 

dabob

Well-known member
Hi dabob

I am not a lawyer for sure. I only know for example the following:
Osha 1910.212 – General requirements for all machines
as well as
ISO 13849-1:1999 [2], ISO 14121:1999 [3], ISO 12100-1:2003 [4], EN 1010-1:2004 [5] and ISO 11161:2007 [6]
and
Product Design and Post-Manufacture Alteration: The Law of Subsequent Modification in New York State (403 N.E.2d 440, 443).

And if I understand this information’s correct the equipment liability has to meet certain standards and moves from the manufacture to the person who does the modification.
Until there is no accident everything is okay. I think the customer should know what he is doing. He should know as well, that he is alone in case of an accident.

Buntpapier

Well . . . according to Osha 1910.212 over half the cutters I have seen in the past 5 years would have to be thrown away this standard was enacted on Jul 30, 2012 so I believe that any machine manufactured after that date is all that can be required to abide by it - here in the U.S. it is un constitutional to pass a law that goes backwards in time (ex post facto)- I know that if you have a classic automobile built prior to 1968 you are not required to retrofit it with seat belts or air bags and IMHO if you replace a switch or a hydraulic line, or electric motor with a suitable model replacement you are not making a modification you are only repairing the machine to its original condition.

I know that you are not allowed to remove or make inoperable any safety equipment that came on your machine when it was new but if newer machines i.e cutters with light beam safeties made older ones that didn't have them illegal most of the printers in the world would be in trouble and go broke trying to replace them after only getting 20 or 30 % of their expected lifespan out of them - but then again the manufacturers would just love it.

I'm not a lawyer either but I do have first hand experience with OSHA involving everything from cutters to forklifts, to linotype machine and everything else in a fairly modern print shop and have never been fined or even written up . . . go figure
 

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