College Printing Program Troubles

[spgovert]

Hello, I am currently enrolled in a Graphic Arts Management program at a university.

I am a Sophomore in this program and I feel as if the program is slacking some so I came here for advice.

I have taken printing courses all through high school and I have competed in Printing competitions as a part of Skills USA and placed first in the post secondary level at nationals. Now my problem is this program does not seem to teach us very well and I don't know how to approach this situation. We have just received a brand new 2 color Heidelberg Printmaster 46, formally known as the QM 46, but anyhow they have yet to use it after almost a full semester of classes. Also when they did use it they had to come to me to have me show the professors how to use it, even after the Heidelberg tech installed it and did training.

Also we have a 4 color AB Dick, not very sure what model, and they never use that either due to lack of knowledge.

Along with them not using this equipment our classes that are supposed to teach us everything about graphic arts are mostly based on articles reviews because the professors don't know how to use the equipment so we cannot even do projects, along with when we do do one project a semester there isn't even enough impressions to run where you actually get experience using the specific equipment.

So how should I approach this problem? I feel as if I am spending 4 years at a school for a piece of paper saying I know how to do something that I don't. I am working in the In plant at the school which is totally unrelated to the program so I am gaining some experience, but should I approach the professors about this? I would talk to the dept head but he is a professor as well and he is the worst out of all the professors there. Or should I just ride out the program and receive my degree and move on?

Any advice would be appreciated, and sorry for rambling on but I need some advice how to make the most out of my college program so I am better candidate for a job after school.

Shane

 

[RGPW17100]

Printing equipment is something you have to run on a regular basis to get a good grasp on. Heidelberg trainers know how to run a press but an experienced operator will run circles around the trainer. That being said is your instructor is not using the machine enough to feel comfortable with it. Older machines like GTO or older duplicators did not have much automation and because of it the manual process was pretty easy to understand. A printmaster has so much electronics involved it really is not a good machine to have as a learning machine. A better choice would have been a Ryobi 3302. My guess is your four color AB Dick is really a four color Ryobi. Ab Dick sold more Ryobis in the US then Ryobi did. They were renamed things like an Itek 3985 or an AB Dick 9985 etc.

Another problem you college faces is changing technologies. These technologies change so fast and are so expensive to purchase that schools cant afford them. If it were me I would complain to your teachers boss. Have the school hire an on call or part time press operator so the instructor can get the training he needs to teach you. This on call person would be an assistant to the teacher.

 

[jrsc]

Shane,

Your college education is all what you make of it. Anybody can just sit through the classes and get the degree but you only learn if you apply yourself. Push to learn the things you want and when go talk to department heads and professors to tell them what you want to learn remember you are paying a lot of money to go to that school and it is their job to make sure you get educated to your standards. If they have equipment they don't know how to use ask them to bring someone in that knows what they are doing to work with students that are interested.

Another great way to get more hands on education is to join a student club or if there isn't one within your program you can start one. As a student club you can find people within the industry to help you learn. People and companies are usually very open to donating time and supplies to students.

If the school really can't fulfill your education needs then you may be best off to transfer to another school. I graduated from a similar program at Rochester Institute of Technology a few years ago and am very happy with the education I received. I don't know much about other schools to give any other recommendations but would say your option of riding out the program without learning anything is a bad one.

 

[gordo]

Push to learn the things you want and when go talk to department heads and professors to tell them what you want to learn remember you are paying a lot of money to go to that school and it is their job to make sure you get educated to your standards.

I must disagree somewhat. Teachers adhere to the curriculum and course outline. Both of which are usually published. If the teachers do not adhere to the published curriculum and course outline then you should speak to them about it, as well as with your co-students. If there is consensus that there is a problem then discuss the issue with those teachers. If you don't get a satisfactory explanation then escalate the issue to the Dean.

best, gordon p

 

[sfhellwig]

And I work at a university and must disagree somewhat with that. Sorry that that sounds confrontational but I have too much first hand experience to agree that all teachers follow a standardized curriculum. You have a right to a proper and complete education but certain areas of a college may follow a published list of classes (the curriculum) then let the instructor fill it in to their abilities. The college of business here is accredited and if someone felt they were not learning enough they would call them out and start some sort of audit that would show that someone had failed or was properly doing their job. The college of technology has automotive certification programs that run like clock work and are audited by the appropriate authorities, the printing department does not.

I'm not sure where the OP is going to school at but it sounds like a place that is employing teachers that can't teach the classes thoroughly and a department chair that can't tell the difference or doesn't care. I work at Pittsburg State University (KS not PA) and when I received my degree their marketing tool was that we were one of a few schools that offered a 4 year printing degree. RIT was another and tends to be highly regarded. At the time I was a student the teachers were really on point, had industry experience and I was working at the university in-plant so I graduated as a skilled digital pre-press technician with years of stripping experience. Now that many of the teachers have retired and been replaced with people that don't have the industry experience the students are really missing out on all levels of production. There is good design support but the "press" teacher won't accept anything if it's not a PDF because he can't even print anything else on the QMDI. Another design teacher is telling the students that print is dead and they had better learn Flash and web design. Some teachers try and the rest hold those up. Disagreement inside the department. And it is getting worse and not being fixed. As long as the chair lets it continue and isn't receiving outside complaints it won't change. And this WAS a good place. I still work at the "in-plant" but now we get the students coming to us because they can't get projects printed in their own department.

If this is how the department operated when I was a student (and if I knew then what I know now) I would have been WAY up the department chair's a** about the education I was receiving. College is too expensive to just get by with the piece of paper. Other than so many printers have to train to their specific equipment it will show if you "just got through." If you think the teacher will be receptive, talk to them. If not then go to the department chair. It's his department and he has to answer for it. If he doesn't respond well go to the dean. Unfortunately when the student knows enough to complain about the teachers you don't have much to hope for. I would start looking at other schools and hoping that your credits transfer.

 

[1dglover]

Printing Education

Printing Education

Deans, department chairs and instructors are not the ones you need to complain too. Write letters to the Board of Trustees, Academic Senate, President of the College and any group/corporation that supports the printing program at your school.

 

[Lennyr]

College Problems

College Problems

If your instructors don't know the equipment, go out in the real world and find someone that does, and is willing to volunteer their time. If you find that person go to your instructor and ask them to allow a guest instructor to come in and demonstrate. As someone said earlier; a press operator that does it every day will run rings around someone who demos.
Lenny

 

[wscmyk]

Reporting or complaining to anyone will not solve your issues. If you decide to talk with someone it should be at least a V.P of Academic Affairs but beware it could come back and bite you, although you don't deserve it. I have a degree in Printing Mgmt from a very good school that closed the program a few years ago. I have served as a faculty member, in printing, with two universities. I have worked with the RIT program over the years and trained several faculty members on digital presses around the world. Let me just tell you that for YOU to try to change the problem you are in is not realistic. Why. Academia moves tooo slow. To change faculty, programs, and curriculum will take at least a year. For each level of academic management all changes have to be scrutinized. You may make a change for the better but you won't benefit from it with 2 more years in your program. My top list: RIT, Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, Pittsburg State University - Kansas, Arkansas State University. There are other good ones, Limited space here. YOU check out other programs, too. YOU decide if a move is good, or feasible, for you. If you decide to stay and take what you can get out of this at least find a local print shop that you can work for. Get away from the schools inplant production plant unless you plan to stay there forever. Find a shop that has, or will let you work a night shift, full or part time. Wish I knew the school you are referring to. Good luck.

 

[Green Printer]

Shane if your professor allows it I can come on a few Saturday's and do a little press training for free. All I ask is that the school provide plates. I will bring all the chemistry needed ink,washup, fountain solution. We could do some live jobs for the school.

 

[4stateprint]

spgovert,

I graduated from a University a few years ago in a commercial graphics program. I would recommend as several of the above members have, that you write a letter to the board of regents/trustees and let them know the state of the program being offered. Honestly, I doubt if it will actually help you. If I were you I would search for a technical school or a different University offering hands on training in a real world situation. I can tell you that you will find more and more universities are going with the theoretical approach that you describe above... we had several profs that took this approach and classes that tended to lean more on the graphic design for web use rather than use for printing. I know that many believe the field is headed that way but never the less we will always need skilled press workers. I will say that if you are helping to train the staff, you need to find a different school, as you are there to learn, not instruct the profs that you are paying for.

 

[spgovert]

Thank guys for all the quick advice and responses,

Now I have looked into how the whole program is set up and who is in charge of everything, like an board of trustees etc. and there is an advisory board made up of local print shop managers and my boss who runs the in-plant facility that I work at. They are in charge of making sure the program is getting students ready for the industry. So I was thinking to go talk to him first and maybe see when there meeting and write a letter to them to present or better yet see if they will let me go to their meeting and talk.

I know transferring is always an option but for me it is not really a choice because of funds, and me being at a state school is the only real option to go. The other school that I was going to go to shut there program down the year I was supposed to go so I ended up here which was the only other school in the state with a program plus it is a 4 year program.

Hopefully this will work, I will see him next week since I am going to Indianapolis this weekend for a annual dinner that I was invited to by PII (Printing industries of Indiana and Illinois) so next week we will see what they say.

Thanks for all the advice and any more would be appreciated,

Shane

 

[wscmyk]

Here's a question for you. Do you what to be a University degreed bindery worker, pressman, design artist, or do you want to have a education designed for Management, Sales, or Ownership? I too had several years of press, bindery, commercial production, and must confess, gallery camera experience when I entered a 4 year Print Management degree program. I had been an Engineering student prior to Print management. I too knew more about the operation of nearly all the equipment in the school shop of ALL my professors and so did most of my fellow students. Faculty members frequently ask for my help and it did bother me for a while. But, no one person, no one, knows EVERYTHING about printing. If you find someone that thinks they DO, RUN. Don't expect the faculty to know all there is about printing either. RIT has a GREAT School of Printing but NO one faculty member knows ALL about printing. RIT had, or still has, a Harris M1000B web press and I am pretty sure that the entire faculty could not print ONE job on it, nor will the teach any student. They have an excellent press crew for the production and labs. One thing that I see is that you say you are a sophomore which might shed some light on what you are going through. You came into the program with working knowledge but you are not to the advanced level in the program. The profs may be guiding you through the program by what level you are on in there program and not what you actually know. Is this good, or bad. The programs real value depends on the success of the grads. Talk to alumni of the program. Find out what they are doing and what they think. That should be easy. Just ask around. Call or email them to find out. You may be in a good program but you are not understanding the focus of the entire 4 year plan. Don't expect any shop to have a lot of use for a 4 color ABDick. I am not knocking the press or ABDICK because all printing equipment has a niche, even flat bed letterpresses, but the CUSTOMER DEMAND, type of, and economics of the output pretty much make changes in the type of equipment in use today. You need to know letterpress, offset, and digital imaging. The printing program is probably doing what they think is a 4 year foundation of knowledge and hands on practice as they can provide. Get in touch with the printing grads before you make a change, or hang yourself with the profs, and talk with a counselor. In printing they are usually from within the department. Tell them your concerns, focusing on how you can use the education in the future, and do not tell them what's broken with the program.
You have a paradigm and they have a paradigm about the program. They are both different and a paradigm shift needs to occur with one or the other, or both. Hope you find a good fix! Nuff Said.

 

[spgovert]

I completely see where your coming from wscmyk and I completely agree with you. What I am is getting at is I know it is a call a Printing Management degree but if I am going to be in a management position I feel I should know as much as I can about the production process. With my current education which is what I learned running presses in high school I feel as if I know a good amount but there is so much more to learn.

I feel there is more to learn and the equipment they have they are not utilizing. I know not every professor will know how to work every piece of equipment, but if they purchased a new press wouldn't you expect one professor to be able to teach the students how to use it over the students teaching the professor?

I also am going to be talking to my adviser which is the head of the printing dept as well and explain to him the situation and how I feel. I am not going to take the approach of just bashing the program because that would not do me any good, I am rather going to give examples of how I feel it should be taught.

I'm not arguing what you said just giving it a different view and I agree with everything you stated above.

Shane

 

[wscmyk]

Good man. Wish I had had more like you when I was teaching. Would have been great. If you can, find out if your University has a Management 2nd major or minor outside the Printing program and look into adding that to your degree plan. I would think that at least one prof should have the skill sets or motivation to learn enough to teach it but I do not know the situation. If it is lack of either one I find that poor on the schools leadership. If it was installed and whoever was trained has not had time to master the beast then that is something else too. Hey, I think you will be fine with your path forward. Maybe next semester the prof will be ready to teach and turn you loose with more technical aspects of the equipment. You probably have at least 4 more semesters in your college career so you have some time for a change to occur. You are drawn to the technincal aspects, which is a good thing, to a point. The higher you climb in management the less technical knowledge you will need (Basic Management 101) but if you are like me I just don't understand the guys who can't, or won't, change a lightbulb, or will not get ink on them. I find a good balance of managerial and academic to hands-on and technical is most pleasing, at least to me. I think you'll be just fine.

 

[swcook6]

Not to be discouraging, but I would change majors completely. The printing industry is in a coma, on life support and it won't be long before they pull the plug.........of course there will be some packaging and some inkjet operations that continue to roll but most everything is going digital.

 

[Shaja]

You should be aiming to prepare yourself for a long-term career, not a short-term technical training.

Don't go to college to relearn what you already know or can learn by doing elsewhere ...

I second what has been said above about reconsidering your major, but I'm going to suggest that you talk to your academic advisor, dean or department head about creating a CUSTOM major specifically tailored to your goals. If you are serious about wanting to go into print management, yes, you should be looking at incorporating business and management classes into your program. You also might want to look at graphic design, interpersonal communication, finance, marketing, and whatever else you consider a weakness in your knowledge.

University politics are predictable: if you bring them a plan, they will not look at you as a troublemaker, they will look at you as a creative student who will make them look good. Departments LOOOOOVE to have stuff like that to brag about in their various newsletters, marketing pieces, etc.


PS - find yourself the best internship you can with the print management professional that you admire the most.

 

[DanB]

I am not collage educated and I cannot advise you on how to deal with your current situation. It took me years to work my way into management by learning and helping in every department. To skip the years of work to get there, I would advise, take classes in computer science, database management, business communications and courses that prepare you in the art of dealing with people as well as the printing classes.

Outside of school, try to get a job in a commercial print shop and not an in-plant. Offer your services at as low a wage as you can afford; maybe even as an unpaid intern. In return for the free or low wages, try to work a deal where you move from pre-press to bindrey spending time in all areas so you can learn how it is done in the real world. Learning the skills in the real world will give you more knowledge than what you say you are getting in school.

Get the Printing degree. It will open doors and once a door is open, your experience in the real world along with the classes I suggested will have prepared you for a management position.

Just my 2 cents.

Dan B

 

[lockus]

Take your time and plan a meeting with other student with the same feelings. Lots of good advice here.

spgovert is my cousin. "Me print good"

 

[Mel H]

I think you should approach the dept. sticking to the curriculum is not an excuse not to learn how to use the equipment. I work for a college, I am in charge of the college publications and graphics, but I also took the time to learn about our ABDick presses and RIP system. If your professors are lacking the experience...it will reflect on your learning.

 

[oxburger]

When I started the graphics program at a two-year university in Columbus, OH back in 1993, They had just sold a brand new large Heidelberg printer and used the proceeds to buy Macintosh computers and Quark, Photoshop and Freehand. The reason being is that it would take two years (or more) of full time instruction to train someone how to run the press and they couldn't justify it, so they sold it and bought the computers. Lucky me because I went into prepress, but you're seeing fewer and fewer trade schools offering graphics programs (and ever fewer high schools)