Color Training for Entire Workflow/Business

[prajna]

Here is a loaded question, that can be taken in many directions. But without starting the conversation, I continue to get more frustrated by the day.

Does anybody know of a way - person, business, process - of learning all about color management and creating a consistent, color managed workflow within a commercial printing business. For example, we offer DI/Toner/Large Format Inkjet color printing. I want to be sure we are not only maximiziing our equipment, but more importantly getting consistent, accurate color from all devices. I've read "Real World Color Management", many other color management primers, we use an X-Rite color profiling system, etc. But it seems that with different RIPS to so many devices, the forward advance of Acrobat and features, the different printing processes, etc., it's still a convoluted mish-mash of theory and stop-gap tricks to get the best color we can. There seems to be no homogeny between theory and practice, and it is costing us in time, labor, set-ups, and frustration. I want all devices to play well together, speak the same language, print the same (or as close as they can) colors, and have a staff knowledgeable in proper color management.

So, would this mean hiring a single individual to come train us and calibrate our equipment? And would they be knowledgeable enough about the various printing processes, the equipment itself, the sofware versions, etc.? Is this something better suited to the G7 process? Does that work with presses using a RIP such as the DI??

I've had plenty of experience with having so-called experts (IT, technical, repair, etc.) come into the shop only to then spend time learning on my dime. But this is too important a task, and certainly a "heady" subject to grasp, that I would want someone who really knows the subject and my business.

Thoughts or experience anyone??? Thanks in advance

 

[mattbeals]

There are definitely people that can do this. But I'd suggest you have one device manage the color and then distribute it out to the various RIP's. Those RIP's don't necessarily have to color manage the jobs. They just need to stay calibrated. But it's not quite that easy. Where are you located?

 

[Correct Color]

So, would this mean hiring a single individual to come train us and calibrate our equipment? And would they be knowledgeable enough about the various printing processes, the equipment itself, the sofware versions, etc.?

Well, I'm completely biased, as this is what I do for a living, but if you're serious about it, then yes, hiring someone to put it all together for you really will be the best money you ever spent.

In fact, that's my guarantee.

The problem, as I'm sure you've found out, is that while "experts" might be 'expert' in their field, they aren't color management experts. Although, unfortunately, this often doesn't stop them from acting as if they are and offering you plenty of 'helpful advice' on the subject. But the problem is that proper color management across a workflow like yours is like building a navigation system with a bunch of maps in place to a bunch of different destinations. And it only takes one wrong turn to not get to the right destination each time.

So you can build a huge multi-layered kluge that oftentimes is working against you more that it's working for you.

You'll be amazed though, with how simple, easy, seamless and surprisingly bullet-proof it is once it's all set up correctly.

If you're interested, feel free to drop me a line.

Mike Adams
Correct Color

 

[tmiller_iluvprinting]

I would recommend talking to Terry Wyse, very knowledgeable-no BS.
Regards,
Todd

 

[Bloodsaler]

Actually color management is a complex system,so it can`t be done by a single person,so if you want good results you`d better have a group of experts to do this staff.They provide suggestion in their field,and you gather them altogether you can do color correct.Actually the color world includes consumbles,press,prepress,and also the environment,so you have to do a lot of fingerprinting to find the best match of each thing,and know all the characteristic of consumbles,it`s not a easy job,so you need a group of experts.
And if you got a excellent color management employee,he can do most of jobs,but not all~

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

If you have time and want to get a feel for the problem I recommend "Digital Color Management" by Homann (ISBN 978-3-540-671190)
Wether you decide to hire a consultant, team of consultants or whatever you will at least understand what you want to obtain, what they are recommending and why.

 

[Correct Color]

Bloodsaler I just have to say I can't agree with what you say.

Anything that's so complex as you describe to require a team of "experts" to implement would be pretty close to useless in the real life of a lot of small and mid-size shops of all types.

And it's not that way. Many of my clients often have a forehead-slapping moment in which they realize that hey, the concepts of color management are actually pretty simple. And once you have a bullet-proof workflow set up, it's not all that hard to maintain. In fact, it's always much easier to maintain and to use than the cobbled together hodge-podge collection of workarounds many people have come to use in its place. No cast of thousands required at all.


Mike Adams
Correct Color

 

[[email protected]]

Pia

Pia

Try these guys. Very knowledgeable and not associated with any one printer manufacturer.

Event Calendar | Printing Industries of America - Printing.org

 

[Jackie]

I can only go by my own experience. We are set up as a G7 shop but I'm not pushing any particular standard, you have to decide what your shop is aiming for. As for us we had a couple of qualified guys from our local vendor come in to set us up as a G7 Certified shop. One was an expert on the Large Format/Digital Colour Copy end and the other was offset press orientated. The digital end was as easy as applying the correct icc profile to the machines and checking the results. The presses required a bit more effort, educating the pressmen and fingerprinting the press for our standard conditions. Our prepress department was already half way there with Prinergy Workflow, Harmony (press curves) and a Kodak CTP output. Once the presses were fingerprinted and the curves applied we were more than pleased with the results.

However (and there is always a but) all these machines/processes are all different, using different toners/inks, and output materials. The only thing that calibration can really bring is a similar standard appearance and hopefully some sort of consistency in colour. I always think that the printer and the customer has have be educated about the differences between the offset vs digital/inkjet process. I'm not trying to sound patronizing but just kind of pointing out that there can be unrealistic expectations out there about colour calibrating/matching.

For us all this was completed in a day and a half, and that included upgrading the RIP on our Epson. If you get the right people in it shouldn't take too long and be relatively painless.

 

[Bloodsaler]

Bloodsaler I just have to say I can't agree with what you say.

Anything that's so complex as you describe to require a team of "experts" to implement would be pretty close to useless in the real life of a lot of small and mid-size shops of all types.

And it's not that way. Many of my clients often have a forehead-slapping moment in which they realize that hey, the concepts of color management are actually pretty simple. And once you have a bullet-proof workflow set up, it's not all that hard to maintain. In fact, it's always much easier to maintain and to use than the cobbled together hodge-podge collection of workarounds many people have come to use in its place. No cast of thousands required at all.


Mike Adams
Correct Color

Maybe in my country this thing become more difficult.All the ink the paper and even the plate can`t match the ISO standard all the time or the press design,so it makes us takes more time to do test to find a best color solution.
If all the consumbles can contain stable,things will be much easier.
But the payment from the clients limits our ink&paper etc,so get the best color from the present situation need a group of people.

 

[Correct Color]

Well...

All I can say in response is that if you have limited resources, hiring a group of people to chase multiple moving targets sounds a little impractical to me.

 

[rich apollo]

…we offer DI/Toner/Large Format Inkjet color printing.…Is this something better suited to the G7 process? Does that work with presses using a RIP such as the DI??…

Hiring someone in can be a good investment. Put together an ROI statement so that everyone can have realistic expectations. I've found with color management a seemingly VERY large initial investment is actually paid for very quickly.

Don't expect any consultant to know all of your processes. Most of the color management consultants I know don't necessarily know the ins and outs of production and that's okay. A good color management consultant will work with you to develop and implement a program that works for you.

Now, your product offerings don't sound really exotic - an color management workflow for your environment shouldn't be a tremendous undertaking. If you want to, email me and I can recommend some folks. I know some very, very good consultants. Depending on your processes, and your location, we should be able to fit you with someone.

G7 would be appropriate for your DI press(es), but not necessarily for your other production devices. However, GRACoL compliance can be achieved by proper use of the RIPs.

 

[tmiller_iluvprinting]

I would also like to add that without proper process control in place, all the G7 calibration in the world won't do you any good. If you do decide to hire a consultant make sure you have your process controls in place and are repeatable, or you're just wasting your $$$!
Regards,
Todd

 

[sbonoff]

Prajna,

IDEAlliance is actually holding two G7 Expert/Professional training sessions in the next two months. Visit the G7 Expert Blog for more information. Feel free to DM me as well.

Steve

 

[Bloodsaler]

I would also like to add that without proper process control in place, all the G7 calibration in the world won't do you any good. If you do decide to hire a consultant make sure you have your process controls in place and are repeatable, or you're just wasting your $$$!
Regards,
Todd

In my opinion,the consultant also have to help the clients to do the process control,to make the quality repeatable and consistency~

 

[tmiller_iluvprinting]

In my opinion,the consultant also have to help the clients to do the process control,to make the quality repeatable and consistency~

That's all fine, the consultant will not have any problem taking your money either way, but what will you do when the consultant leaves the building? IMHO it is better to have the controls and repeatability established before the consultant visits. This issue is then covered before the consultant arrives, and after the consultant departs. The
consultant should do a pre-visit audit to make sure the process is controlled, consistent and ready for characterization, ISO-12647-2 standard is being met if applicable, etc. Again, IMHO, this saves time and $$$$$!
Regards,
Todd