Difference between KM C6000 and C7000?
- Thread starter Denis9595
- Start date
As I understand it, the differences are commercial rather than technical. The print engines are the same, but the 6000's is speed limited. The 7000 has more options available for finishing etc. Sorry, no experience with the IC-601.
We just had a sitdown with the Konica reps to discuss the possibility of upgrading our machine to one of these, the only difference is the speed. We have a KM 6501, so to upgrade to one of these machines really didn't make sense for us since we haven't come close to maxing out our potential volume.
The better machine out of their new machines is the 8000 because it has the air feed and doesn't slow down when you change stock (its also their most expensive though), they all have the same front end options.
The better machine out of their new machines is the 8000 because it has the air feed and doesn't slow down when you change stock (its also their most expensive though), they all have the same front end options.
What is the cost of the 8000?
All comments below assume a printing company paradigm.
Speed is it. We JUST leased the 7000. I'd go with the 7000 if you can't afford the 8000. From a print production standpoint speed is crucial for making money. We still find the 7000 to be a little slow for some applications. Remember that the quoted speed is under ideal conditions with 50# 8.5x11 uncoated paper one-side. Any deviation from that spec will run at a slower speed. Two side is half as fast. Heaver paper is half as fast. 11x17 is half as fast. You see how you can easily get to 1/4 or 1/8 the rated speed by combining factors. Expect the quoting/scheduling people/person to pull their hair out for a couple months.
I do have experience with the IC-601. It's ~alright~ for most applications My small company will always cheap out on the RIP and it will always come back to bite us. There's already been a half dozen times I wish we got the Firey RIP. If you can afford it, do it! If you can't, the IC-601 is ok... I'm not really sure what else you want to know, so I'll leave it at that.
Also make sure you get the color calibration software / hardware. Thankfully we did.
Get as many back end options wrapped up in the lease as you can too. We're regretting not getting a UV coater, and perhaps perfect-binder. While a lot of these things are faster / cheaper offline, we don't have all those capabilities. Sending things out defeats the quick turn-around side of digital printing.
I don't check this board until I get the newsletter and see something interesting or relevant to me. I'm PM'ing you my phone number if you have any other questions, as I probably won't see your response.
-Sam
Speed is it. We JUST leased the 7000. I'd go with the 7000 if you can't afford the 8000. From a print production standpoint speed is crucial for making money. We still find the 7000 to be a little slow for some applications. Remember that the quoted speed is under ideal conditions with 50# 8.5x11 uncoated paper one-side. Any deviation from that spec will run at a slower speed. Two side is half as fast. Heaver paper is half as fast. 11x17 is half as fast. You see how you can easily get to 1/4 or 1/8 the rated speed by combining factors. Expect the quoting/scheduling people/person to pull their hair out for a couple months.
I do have experience with the IC-601. It's ~alright~ for most applications My small company will always cheap out on the RIP and it will always come back to bite us. There's already been a half dozen times I wish we got the Firey RIP. If you can afford it, do it! If you can't, the IC-601 is ok... I'm not really sure what else you want to know, so I'll leave it at that.
Also make sure you get the color calibration software / hardware. Thankfully we did.
Get as many back end options wrapped up in the lease as you can too. We're regretting not getting a UV coater, and perhaps perfect-binder. While a lot of these things are faster / cheaper offline, we don't have all those capabilities. Sending things out defeats the quick turn-around side of digital printing.
I don't check this board until I get the newsletter and see something interesting or relevant to me. I'm PM'ing you my phone number if you have any other questions, as I probably won't see your response.
-Sam
arossetti
Well-known member
I'm guessing but I assume it is in the $150k range.
I thought so, thank you very much for your response.
Comparison with Fiery is exactly what I'm interested in, thanks for that. I already have a 6501 with internal Fiery, color profiller software from EFI, Es-1000...would like to upgrade to 7000.
Thank you
arossetti
Well-known member
That is pretty true for most production presses. 1-2 minutes before first sheet isn't unheard of, if you catch it at the right time up to 5 minutes. But these machines where designed to do longer runs where a 5 minute warm up is made back very quickly.
If you already have a 6501 I'm not sure why you would be upgrading to a 6000 or even a 7000. The cost/benefit is not great enough to warrant such a purchase. We have been round and round with this, we have the 6501 as well. The reps will tell you that they are better machines, new technology blah blah blah, but I would say that the differences aren't enough to drop a wad of cash on them, if you are leasing then it could make some sense, but definetly not worth a purchase. The only upgrade path that makes sense to me is to move up to the 8000, where you have the much better air feeding and the ability to maintain speed no matter what the stock, you also have the ability to go upto 350gsm paper, the 6000 and 7000 are limited to 300gsm and the speed slows for heavier or larger stock.
So if they are picky and they have, short runs.. or variable data... or need for quick turnaround... ?
What do you think you're going to get in the next generation of machines?
The 6000/7000 replacements will still only do 300gsm, and the resolution does not need to get better.
Why would you ever bother upgrading in this class then?
What do you think you're going to get in the next generation of machines?
The 6000/7000 replacements will still only do 300gsm, and the resolution does not need to get better.
Why would you ever bother upgrading in this class then?
Exactly, I wouldn't upgrade to any of these machines, except for maybe the 8000. The resolution is fine. Who knows what could come in the next generation of machines, but the current generation isn't offering up a good enough reason to upgrade for us, it might be different for someone else, but we don't see the benefit.
As for "Picky" we know what our customers expect, so we educate them on the differences between our offset and digital offerings and let them make the choice, we don't set ourselves up for failure and tell them that the digital is the greatest thing out there. We tell them that it is intended for short runs, ok registration, keeping costs down, pretty good color - close to spot colors - not exact. Runs can look different etc, etc.
They decide and 99% of the time customers decide based on price and we usually surprise them with our output.
Disclaimer - This is our experience, others may have different needs and customer base.
The things u are saying there sounds like you really should change the machine. OK registration... pretty good color.... close to spot colors... runs can look different...
New machines could solve all those things.
I never said they were problems that needed solving. There isn't a digital machine out there that can match the registration of an offset press. No digital machine can match 100% of spot colors. Runs can look different, not because the machine has something wrong with it, but because that is what happens with digital machines.
No. New machines cannot solve all of this, I guarantee you the same problems exist on the new machines.
Are you just up for an argument today....?
arossetti
Well-known member
Speed, I would expect to see them match the 75ppm of the Xerox C/J75
Registration, automatic registration correction or a more automated system like the J75
Internal image quality control/calibration - Like on the J75.
Oh and the J75 runs at rated speed on all stocks. Those would be things to look at for products in that class of printer.
Not sure, but i think Indigo is able to provide you with the capability to self mix or order PANTONE-licensed spot colors. So there are actually machines which can hit those spot colors.
And yes you might be right about the offset press registration, but there are machines with which you can get the registration spot on. Under 0,5 mm should be enough in MOST of the works.
And to the "runs can look different". You should really go and watch igen 4 or Color press 1000 demo and you will understand how production machines really work when it comes to quality controll.
Those are ofc little more pricy than the 6000/7000. But the 800 is just a a little bit more expensive than the 8000.
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