dot gain pattern

[SteveSuffRIT]

Hi Maks,
I assume you are Ariel Reyes in Philippines working at Arking Prints Solution?
I reviewed your 71 posts on PrintPlanet.
Also your Linkedin page.

You mention you performed another press inspection. Was it the same press again or a different press?
When you say "inspection", I assume it's the linear press run for a fingerprint or plate/proof calibration run?

Your post #16 asks about the press "executing proper makeready" being the reason you linear 5% measures 12%.
To eliminate any confusion about what and how you are measuring, what dot size area do you get when you measure the 10% on the press sheet with the plate reader, not the densitometer?

 

[maks]

First off, those coated densities are considerably higher than normal that you run. Perhaps a different filter setting?

K - 1.70 - 1.75
C - 1.35 - 1.40
M - 1.40 - 1.45
Y - 1.00 - 1.05

It’s been years since calibrating strictly to TVI. Here in the U.S., most commercial printing and or packaging printers have migrated to the G7 methodology.

I also saw that you’re running a 150 Line Screen? Have you tried 175 - 200 line?

What brand ink / series are you running? Are your inks ISO-12647-2 / ISO-2846 Compliant?

we do 175 and 200 as well but same issues, we get the highlights over the target. we are also referencing the G7 methodology. this what i hope others can advise what seems to be the abnormal things we are encountering with our printing

 

[maks]

First off, those coated densities are considerably higher than normal that you run. Perhaps a different filter setting?

K - 1.70 - 1.75
C - 1.35 - 1.40
M - 1.40 - 1.45
Y - 1.00 - 1.05

It’s been years since calibrating strictly to TVI. Here in the U.S., most commercial printing and or packaging printers have migrated to the G7 methodology.

I also saw that you’re running a 150 Line Screen? Have you tried 175 - 200 line?

What brand ink / series are you running? Are your inks ISO-12647-2 / ISO-2846 Compliant?

most of our export jobs will fail if we do not print one step higher. they normally request to make the SID higher, sometimes even cyan and magenta reaching 1.7 density

 

[SteveSuffRIT]

Maks,
In post #22 you say "I hope others can advise what seems to be the abnormal things we are encountering with our printing?".
Poster "Assures" makes a comment about your high SIDs.
Then you say you even sometime printer much higher!
Aren't you curious about what would be your TVI if you were at the normal SIDs?
ISO 2846 inks and ISO 12647 are important in defining "normal".
"Assures" asks if you have a Certificate of Compliance/Conformance (CoC) from ink company saying your ink is ISO 2846?
This determines pigment loading or concentration, which determines IFT (Ink Film Thickness) which effects SID & TVI.
Small highlight dots, with a short base, can only hold so much vertical ink height (IFT) before the ink flows outward making them print larger, fuller, heavier (TVI).

 

[Asures]

most of our export jobs will fail if we do not print one step higher. they normally request to make the SID higher, sometimes even cyan and magenta reaching 1.7 density

Sir, you have indirectly solved your own issue.

ISO-12647-2 (Which is incorporated in whatever G7 calibration program you use) specifically names L*a*b* values for all four colors and traps. Any reputable ink company will formulate ink to these standards for color strength and transparency. In calibration, process colors are also translated and achieved by running specific ink films and densities. You'll never get there running a Cyan and Magenta at 1.70.

You're trying to achieve low dot gains (TVI) by pushing ink volumes to extremes that they were probably not intended to be. Running conventional ink, how fast are you running and how much powder are you applying to not offset those jobs?

I can't even begin to imagine what the proof you are trying to target looks like,

 

[maks]

Maks,
In post #22 you say "I hope others can advise what seems to be the abnormal things we are encountering with our printing?".
Poster "Assures" makes a comment about your high SIDs.
Then you say you even sometime printer much higher!
Aren't you curious about what would be your TVI if you were at the normal SIDs?
ISO 2846 inks and ISO 12647 are important in defining "normal".
"Assures" asks if you have a Certificate of Compliance/Conformance (CoC) from ink company saying your ink is ISO 2846?
This determines pigment loading or concentration, which determines IFT (Ink Film Thickness) which effects SID & TVI.
Small highlight dots, with a short base, can only hold so much vertical ink height (IFT) before the ink flows outward making them print larger, fuller, heavier (TVI).

actually i am trying to manage the tvi - again, it seems a normal start up which i am trying to do away at. lower or within the standard SID, the measured tonal curve comes out in that pattern. it is not because we love to print at a higher SID, means even at a minimum start up it comes out that way. that is why i am seeking some inputs, what probably is wrong

 

[maks]

Sir, you have indirectly solved your own issue.

ISO-12647-2 (Which is incorporated in whatever G7 calibration program you use) specifically names L*a*b* values for all four colors and traps. Any reputable ink company will formulate ink to these standards for color strength and transparency. In calibration, process colors are also translated and achieved by running specific ink films and densities. You'll never get there running a Cyan and Magenta at 1.70.

You're trying to achieve low dot gains (TVI) by pushing ink volumes to extremes that they were probably not intended to be. Running conventional ink, how fast are you running and how much powder are you applying to not offset those jobs?

I can't even begin to imagine what the proof you are trying to target looks like,

well, we arre compliant to iso 12647-7, and we sell it to client as a contract proof. mentioning that we do some heavy and high SID is bacause some exisitng artwork in the grocer store shows solo cyan or magenta band vivid or high intense hue. if that is there existing in the market, how do you convince to just print it normally.

 

[Asures]

Maks,
In post #22 you say "I hope others can advise what seems to be the abnormal things we are encountering with our printing?".
Poster "Assures" makes a comment about your high SIDs.
Then you say you even sometime printer much higher!
Aren't you curious about what would be your TVI if you were at the normal SIDs?
ISO 2846 inks and ISO 12647 are important in defining "normal".
"Assures" asks if you have a Certificate of Compliance/Conformance (CoC) from ink company saying your ink is ISO 2846?
This determines pigment loading or concentration, which determines IFT (Ink Film Thickness) which effects SID & TVI.
Small highlight dots, with a short base, can only hold so much vertical ink height (IFT) before the ink flows outward making them print larger, fuller, heavier (TVI).

most of our export jobs will fail if we do not print one step higher. they normally request to make the SID higher, sometimes even cyan and magenta reaching 1.7 density

well, we arre compliant to iso 12647-7, and we sell it to client as a contract proof. mentioning that we do some heavy and high SID is bacause some exisitng artwork in the grocer store shows solo cyan or magenta band vivid or high intense hue. if that is there existing in the market, how do you convince to just print it normally.

Maybe you should use a Pantone Color instead of trying to build it out of ridiculously high four color densities? That will allow you to run a "Realistic" ink film instead of what your results are producing - unless you only a have 4/c press. Even then, two passes through the press and call it a day. Respectfully, by doing what you're doing, you're creating your own issues.

Again sir, what ink are you running? What series are you running?

Run Pantone Process Blue, Run Rubine Red and or create proper separations in the file for spot colors. Pantone exists world wide, surely you can mix a few lbs. of ink.

Have you considered calibrating your proof to G7 Color Space and setting the Press up to G7? That would give you a visually close match between what you are presenting to your customer and what your abilities are on press.

...I can lead the horse to water but can't make him drink....