Drying issues, help please.

[inky]

Hi,

I wonder if any one can help, I've always had an issue with slow drying when printing Business cards on "Ivory Board". I have no drying problems on any other stocks. I am only a small printer with a Heidelberg PM46 (QM46).

Absolutely any tips or advice would be very much appreciated.

Thanks

Harvey

 

[Paultheprinter]

Re: Drying issues, help please.

Hi there

Your issue with ivory board sounds like most issues i used to have. Check fount soloution PH, the more acidic below 5.0 PH the slower the drying, try reducing the ink weight if possible, i used to run pms 280 on that stuff and it was ringing wet for a good 12 hours after, add cobolt (or magnesium i think) to the ink to act as a drying catalist or if that wont work switch to a oxiditation drying ink as the ivory board was not very porous and the ink sat on the surface. I hope this helps, but if not repost

Paul

 

[Lukew]

Not sure what is classed as slow/fast drying on Ivory board
our times are
text coverage B-cards. no matter what PMS printed one day cut the next
medium-solid coverage B-cards printed one day cut the second day after

There are a few products you can try if you don't want to use the cobalt driers.
Vanson smooth lith (reduces tack , improves ink flow . aids drying , prevents picking)
this product is also good in helping kep half tones and reverse type open

Hurst, ink gloss - works as a dryer


Pop Online - snake oil Ink elixer (Australian company) We found this product to be brilliant, It doesnt effect the ink like a lot of the other additives,as you may know a lot of additives alter the colour of the ink or cause tinting with a break down of the ink over longer runs.
If you have troubles getting a clean solid this stuff works wonders in fixing that, fine screens stay open, and drying time is improved, But its very $$$

 

[inky]

Thanks for the replies, I'd like to get to the bottom of this as it's been a real problem for me for about 15 years. I can work around it by interleaving the job but this is very time consuming.

I have just started using a premixed silver fount, since I went computer to plate at Christmas (Silver Master) I can honestly say adding cobalt driers do not seem to help the problem, if I use oxidising inks they do not seem to dry either. I tend to print in the afternoon into the early evening and would expect the job to be dry enough by 9 A.M. the next day to cut without offsetting. I've tried winding the job, keeping it warm etc but all to no avail. The best results I have is when I reduce the ink with linseed oil but I then loose colour strength, the same is true of reducinng the weight of ink.

I think paultheprinter is right about the ink just sitting on the surface of the stock, reducers like lukew suggest definately help, but I can't understand where I'm going wrong.

I've just Googled "snake oil Ink elixer" but can't find any thing, do you have any other pointers, as I really will try any thing.

Many thanks in advance,

Harvey

 

[Lukew]

As you can see by our turn around times I posted. we are of similar time frames to you, but with a few added hours, Is this just straight text B-cards, or solids as well ?

Lets not forget that some inks dry better on this stock then others.
Some brands of ink we used to use , gave us the same problem you are having
Are you using a vegetable base ink ?

I assume you have tried different vendors Ivory board ? Same some dry better then others.

Do you use IPA in your fount ?
Reason for asking is, we have noticed faster drying on all stocks since going from 10% IPA down to 3% I think mainly due to the fact that we now need less ink to acheive the correct density, (IPA acts as a solvent and breaks down the ink)

Pop online is the Australian company that sells the Snake oil ink elixer
mailto: [email protected]
TEL: 08 9246 5100 or FAX: 08 9246 5200

 

[inky]

Thanks lukew for replying, I have problems regardless of coverage, and I have tried different makes of board.

I run continuous dampeners, which I have always wondered if this may be a problem.
I run totally alcohol free, if I add 5% or more IPA I can see the damper rollers slip in the cylinder gap. (all new Bottcher rollers set by the engineer) I used to like running IPA with Kompacs years ago (this press is continuous damping) but I stopped as the Varn representative told me at 3% it would have evaporated before it got to the plate because I don’t have a chiller. I don’t honestly know if this is true.

Reading the comments I have received I think I may print with too much ink (to keep colour strength) I had hoped by reducing the ink with a reducer this would have helped.

I have only really used Hostmann-Steinberg and Vanson CML, I do not know if they are vegetable based or not. I’ve bought some Manders ink to try tonight, it was quite expensive. Being self-taught has had its problems for me, may be I’m expecting too much.

Again thanks for all the comments and suggestions; this has become a bit of an obsession for me as I have subbed the odd difficult job and it comes back bone dry and rock hard.

Regards

Harvey

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

Have you tried mixing a small amount of varnish in the inks? I know that out GTO 2-colour press printers have used that at times for odd papers.

 

[inky]

Thanks Lukas, I'm prepared to try anything.

Would that be overprint varnish?

Regards

Harvey

 

[Paultheprinter]

what fount are you using, and what dosage ? have you tried a drying additive in the fount ? have you checked the ph of the fount? you seem to be ahead of your variables but your problems still persist, what is the state of your rollers in your press and what do you run your water at %. There will be a soloution but try to look at you variables objectivley.

Paul

 

[inky]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

"what fount are you using ?" premixed silver fount, the best I have tried so far, for ease of use over longer runs 5000+

"what dosage ?" between 2-3 % when I mixed it myself, I have tried several in the Varn range, combifix by hostmann steinberg, Vansons fount, Vegra Blue, and a Heidelberg one. I have used distilled and tap water. I checked conductivety, usually around 16-1800 Microsiemens.

" have you tried a drying additive in the fount ?" yes, I've tried an additive and a Vegra fount with it added. I noticed no difference.

" have you checked the ph of the fount ?" 5.5 I have also tried a PH neutral fount (ink tended to pick real bad)

" what is the state of your rollers in your press" New, but always had the problem.

"what do you run your water at %." I don't really understand the question, as little as possible? to avoid background?

Thanks again

Harvey

 

[Bob Peterson]

Inky,

Can you please clarify what you mean by drying? The reason I ask is that most people confuse slow / not drying with rub/scuff/chalking problems. The way that you can tell the difference is to wipe all of the oil from your index finger with a clean rag and then run your finger, one time, over the printed area. The reason for wiping your finger prior to performing this quik test is that the oils your body produces will break down the ink film and make it smudge. If the ink doesn't move it is for the most part dry.

If the ink does move it is still wet and is probally due to one or more of the factors below:

1. Not using a oxidizing ink. Don't use rubber base ink.

2. Running too much fountain solution. Check with a loop to see if the solid print areas look mottled or orange peel looking. This is a tell tale sign of too much water. If you are running your water to point of drying up you probally need to run an ink with a heavier body to resist water better. You might want to try adding some heavy binding varnish.

3. The ph of the stock is too acidic. A paper with a low ph will cause inks to dry extremley slow or not at all. You can check the paper ph using a litmus pen. I highly recommend a little purple test marker made by Nikken part# 144-2. you can get them from Printing Supply 800-516-8443. These are the most accurate that I found.

4. The problem you are experiencing could possibally be related to poor rub / scuff resistance. Most printers confuse this problem with slow or no drying inks. The problem is caused by an ink with insufficient wax in the ink to reduce slip and increase scuff resistance on smooth uncoated, matte, and dull coated papers.

NEVER add any cobalt to an ink that already coantains driers. Should you add too much, i.e. (greater then 2%) of whats in the formula already it can actually slow the drying and or cause the dry ink to chalk.

There is a product available on the market that many printers have been having improved drying. the product is supplied by Prisco and is called Speedy Dry.

I hope this info is helpful. Good Luck!

Bob

 

[Lukew]

Edit , sorry posted in the wrong area