Duplo 616 Pro & Fiery Impose Job Templates?

[jdr999]

Hi all,

I just received a new toy - a Duplo 616 Pro.

I'd love to automate my workflow now with fiery imposition and matching Duplo jobs. Does anyone have any Fiery impose templates with matching Duplo jobs? I'm trying to figure it all out, but it's frustrating. Depending upon the job various measurements have to within specified ranges that I don't quite understand and seem to vary from sheet to sheet. I'm making progress, but SLOWLY.... I have a 21UP card impose/duplo template close, but it took MANY hours to get both to work...

I'm looking mostly for 12x18 sheets -- 21/24 UP business cards, 4x6/5x7 flat cards and creased cards, 8.5x11 full bleeds, etc.. I'm surprised I can't find anywhere to download pre-made setups....

Thanks!
Joe

 

[JustinB]

Step 1: You impose the job in fiery and add all the marks and a bar code and print it out.
Step 2: Build your Duplo program based on what printed out.
Step 3: Save it to the Duplo in the same program spot as the bar code you picked in the fiery.
Step 4: Set up the Duplo to read bar codes from printed sheets
Step 5: Print it again, run it back through the duplo and make sure it's reading things correctly.

Done.

The Duplo wizard for making programs is very straightforward to use. If you know you used a .2" gutter in fiery, then tell Duplo there is a .2" gutter. It's that easy.

 

[jdr999]

On paper, yes, it's that easy.

However there are some gotchas. Starting straight from impose and building Duplo jobs off that printed sheet doesn't always work. Lead / side edges may be invalid sizes, gutters may be invalid sizes or too large/small and deflectors can't drop waste into bin, if last cards are too short they are considered waste and chopped up, etc.. There's a decent learning curve as to what jobs are possible vs. impossible. Right now it's all trial and error -- with mostly error...

What I've found works best is to try to reverse-engineer the default Duplo templates in impose.

Still can't get 24 up business cards to work -- the last row is always considered waste. Only option I've found is to do a Fiery front/back page shift but I really don't want to go there when I've also got to align front and backs.. I did get 21 up to work, and 5x7 flats working.

5x7 folded is giving me headaches. In order to print them 2up the creases are in the wrong direction. So I've got few options.

First is an InDesign template with a registration mark that I impose 2up, cut in half on the guillotine, and then run through the Duplo. Slower since I have twice as many reg. marks to read. Might be doable to only read first mark on each left/right stack though...

The other option is to impose the 7.25" x 10.25" PDF 2up (which only gives me registration marks on one card), build a Duplo job to cut them down to 2 identical letter size sheets, and then build another Duplo job to do the final trim and crease. Haven't tried this one yet so I'm not sure it's possible...

Life would be so much easier and more productive if they included matching impose templates with their pre-made job files and PDF examples.

 

[JustinB]

I have a Duplo 646 and have NONE of the problems you're describing. I looked at a 616 and decided it was to Mickey Mouse for a work environment. We print everything on 13x19.2 and it couldn't handle 24 up business cards with bleeds in 1 pass. That killed the deal right then and there.

Can you send back your 616 and get a 646? I've had mine for I think 2 years now and it has been flawless.

The problem isn't fiery. The problem is the 616 isn't robust enough to do what you want.

 

[jrsc]

It would be really nice if fiery and duplo could get together and integrate things more than printing barcodes and registration marks from impose. It would really cut down template building if you can send your impose template from the fiery to the duplo instead of having to set the same things in two different places.

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

Isn't that what JDF is for?

 

[jrsc]

Isn't that what JDF is for?

Yes, exactly, but as far as I know there isn't a way to use JDF to go from firey impose to a duplo. Maybe there is something I don't know.

 

[JustinB]

If you're doing it right, you build a template once in fiery (virtual printer, hot folder, etc.) and you build a duplo template once, and then you keep reusing those two things all the time. It's not that tedious once you're accustomed to it. I've made lots of templates for my machine. I have almost all 80 spots filled, and still more templates saved on my computer.

 

[jdr999]

True. There is a learning curve though and it seems we are all spending countless hours building the same templates over and over again. It would be much more efficient for new buyers to have access to pre-built template combos. We are all re-inventing the wheel...

Heck, it took me three days of googling to figure out the Fiery issues with User Defined sizing versus Based on Crop. For the life of me I couldn't figure out why I couldn't copy the templates to other machines or use them in hot folders..

What's the best way to handle 5x7 folded cards? They need to run through twice as the fold is in the wrong direction at 2up on 11x17 or 12x18.

Also, how did your pricing change once you went from guillotine to slitter/creaser? With an impose template and Duplo job most of the finishing time / labor is gone. Business cards are actually enjoyable now! So we can easily lower our prices, especially on longer runs. Should I pad my lowered pricing to cover the cost of the machine, or should I price very competitively to get more jobs?

 

[JustinB]

Create 2 programs. 1 that cuts out the 10x7 shape, another that creases it. That's how we do it with our 646. Works fine.

The reason they don't make basic templates is because there are so many ways to handle bleeds and gutters. Some use .125 bleeds, others in mm. We use .1 bleed and .2 gutter. Makes for simple math.

Are your customers happy with your prices? If so, why lower them? We didn't lower our prices at all when we got the machine, we started going home at a decent time instead.

I still think you need a 646, not a 616. 616 might be ok for an office setting. 646 is for print shops.

 

[jdr999]

Create 2 programs. 1 that cuts out the 10x7 shape, another that creases it. That's how we do it with our 646. Works fine.

The reason they don't make basic templates is because there are so many ways to handle bleeds and gutters. Some use .125 bleeds, others in mm. We use .1 bleed and .2 gutter. Makes for simple math.

Are your customers happy with your prices? If so, why lower them? We didn't lower our prices at all when we got the machine, we started going home at a decent time instead.

I still think you need a 646, not a 616. 616 might be ok for an office setting. 646 is for print shops.

Hi Justin,

Thanks for the reply. I agree that the 646 is a better machine, I just couldn't justify the jump in price -- we're just a two man shop. Most of what we do is short to medium runs. I just finished 1750 5x7 folded cards on the 616 and the customer insisted on .125" top/bottom safety margins?? It's not a speed demon but it got the job done much more accurately than we could do by hand. Before the 616 we did folded cards with a lever-action manual creaser one at a time and a guillotine. So there was no way to even consider jobs like these..

Looking at the specs on the Duplo website both the 616 and 646 minimum in-feed paper size is 8.26" x 8.26". If that's true, how can you run a 7" x 10" through it?

Thanks,
Joe

 

[saburnsjax]

I looked at a 616 and decided it was to Mickey Mouse for a work environment. We print everything on 13x19.2 and it couldn't handle 24 up business cards with bleeds in 1 pass. That killed the deal right then and there.

Is that right? The specs brochure for the 616 shows 24-up full bleed biz cards on 12"x18" in one pass as one of their examples.

 

[jdr999]

Is that right? The specs brochure for the 616 shows 24-up full bleed biz cards on 12"x18" in one pass as one of their examples.

I don't know for sure. There is a template for it but I had trouble making it work. There's a section in the manual stating which jobs are possible and which aren't. If your finished piece is too small and too close to the bottom of the sheet it's considered waste and is cut up. There may be a way to get 24up on 12x18, but I haven't needed it. I can however do 21up full bleed on 12x18 all day long. That's fine for our workload.

The minimum sheet size is 8.26 x 8.26 which stumped me at first when trying to crease 7x10's and 6x8's. The trick is to lie about the width - makes no difference when creasing...

 

[ezfx]

Is that right? The specs brochure for the 616 shows 24-up full bleed biz cards on 12"x18" in one pass as one of their examples.

You can do this very easy just "trick" the machine add 3-5mm to the page length and it is solved.