Esko or Kodak?

[ChrisWorks]

Our company is currently using the Kodak workflow for all of our prepress work but they're exploring changing over to Esko. Can anyone offer any pros & cons for switching? We are heavy into conventional & packaging work. We also do some large format and flexo. We use Prinergy, Pandora, Preps & Insite mainly.

 

[gordo]

Why are you considering swtching?

 

[ChrisWorks]

The prepress department is happy with Kodak, but management is looking at "cheaper" alternatives. It may very well be that Esko has gained an edge on Kodak in recent years though I've never known anyone to run Esko and the only experience I have with Esko products is ArtiosCAD.

 

[Joe Morin]

You may also want to contact Hybrid Solutions, they are an even less expensive alternative.

 

[PrepressDan]

You may also want to contact Hybrid Solutions, they are an even less expensive alternative.

Hybrid Software not Hybrid Solutions. Akaleus, if you would like more information on Hybrid Software, please feel free to PM me.

 

[StillWaiting]

The prepress department is happy with Kodak, but management is looking at "cheaper" alternatives. It may very well be that Esko has gained an edge on Kodak in recent years though I've never known anyone to run Esko and the only experience I have with Esko products is ArtiosCAD.

Esko is far, far away from a "cheaper" alternative!

 

[PrepressDan]

What kind of work is it that you are doing? Commercial? Packaging? Looking at your website it seems like you are more on the commercial side of the business. In my experience, Kodak is probably the best bet for commercial work. Depending on the complexity of the workflows, XMF from Fuji would also be something I would consider. Especially if price is your pain point. Esko and Hybrid Software both specialize in the packaging industry.

 

[PDL]

the only experience I have with Esko products is ArtiosCAD.

If your shop is using ArtiosCAD your management may be looking at the rest of the Esko suite (Automation Engine) because of the way AE can integrate and automate many the CAD and layout functions with graphics for a seamless workflow. Just guessing.

 

[ChrisWorks]

What kind of work is it that you are doing? Commercial? Packaging? Looking at your website it seems like you are more on the commercial side of the business. In my experience, Kodak is probably the best bet for commercial work. Depending on the complexity of the workflows, XMF from Fuji would also be something I would consider. Especially if price is your pain point. Esko and Hybrid Software both specialize in the packaging industry.

Our bread and butter is book work ie. conventional offset stuff. But over the past few years our packaging business has grown quite a lot. We have purchased a couple of licenses of Pandora, Kodak's packaging layout application, and use our DXF/CF2 files from ArtiosCAD in Pandora to make our press impositions for packaging. We use Preps for all of our conventional work.

 

[ChrisWorks]

If your shop is using ArtiosCAD your management may be looking at the rest of the Esko suite (Automation Engine) because of the way AE can integrate and automate many the CAD and layout functions with graphics for a seamless workflow. Just guessing.

Yeah that is what I'm figuring as well. But judging from Esko's website, they don't handle conventional offset work at all. I couldn't find anything about it. Looks like the closest they get is with digital pressses.

 

[PDL]

Esko Automation Engine workflow works well with JDF output from Preps.

 

[ChrisWorks]

Esko Automation Engine workflow works well with JDF output from Preps.

Interesting. Does esko not have an imposition software that can handle book work? I can't find anything mentioned it on their website.

 

[theShaft]

Esko has a couple different imposition applications - one for packaging and "N-UP" work (PLato) and another for commercial work (FastImpose).

As Peter already acknowledged, this workflow does well with JDF and you can probably use any existing templates you have as long as they meet the standard.

Esko is super powerful and excels at packaging and such. You would appreciate the extra strength in the commercial side as well.

*** I've been an Esko user for over 20 years and have lots of experience with the offerings from Kodak (Creo), Heidelberg and Fuji.

 

[GeorgeFernandez]

I have used Esko products for the last 15 years in offset packaging and flexo labels. Great software but would not use it for commercial work like books. Kodak software has its roots there and would be a better fit. I would recommend you try using Esko Deskpack plug-in for illustrator for packaging work. It will work directly with .ard files from ArtiosCAD for file prep and 3D proofs for validation of panel placement, bleeds, glue areas, etc. Also, it handles trapping, barcode generation, varnish plate creation all within Illustrator. It is SaaS and you can download a free trial from their website. Don't change Rips just add tools in my opinion but you know what they say about opinions.

 

[Bears Fan]

The Prinergy workflow was designed for Packaging (both Flexo and offset) since 2001, commercial printing, and digital printing. Prinergy has largest install base in the conventional packaging market and is becoming a market leader again in Flexo with it's unique Flexographic screening technology called Maxtone SX. We support any Flexo CTP device and any resolution. More and more Esko customers are using Prinergy for their workflow of choice. Prinergy is an open workflow that works with any CAD file from Artios or Arden with complete packaging workflow automation. Prinergy has a partnership with Arden, PackZ, and other packaging based tools. Please contact me to learn more.

 

[PrepressDan]

If you are doing a mixture of work (book, packaging etc...) than I would say that Kodak has the best solution. Prinergy with RBA and Preps is clearly the leader in offset page work. They also partner with Hybrid Software by utilizing Packz PDF editor for high end Packaging work in combination with Prinergy and Pandora.

Esko does have a strong integration with Artios and has very good packaging software. However Esko has moved away from making offset page work a priority. Hence they have stopped development of their fast impose product. Peter is right that you can work with Preps JDF (or Dynastrip) but why would you want to if Kodak can work with Preps in a better manor.

my 2 cents

 

[marktonk]

Akaleus,

You may want to consider Prinect. Our Signa Station was launched in 1993 and quite feature rich for commercial work. The marks and color bars are dynamic, very easy to change from one press to another. We also have a packaging extension to it, Packaging Pro. We have been integrated into our Prepress Manager workflow for almost a decade, you do not have to jump in and out of application and the beauty of it is Signa Station Packaging Pro does commercial and packaging, so one program to do both. If you want to make your pressman your best friend, we have dynamic ink take off bars, it calculates each take off for the data in each ink zone on your press and is just a mouse click. I have yet to find this feature on any other sw. You want to make the press operator happier? Currently, when sending ink zone presettings form Prinergy, you will get the ink key presets, job name, number, maybe one or two more presets. From our workflow to a newer HD press, you can receive up to 26 presets. The press operator does not have to enter them and save some time on makeready....time on the press is probably your most expensive cost center. This is proprietary to Prinect workflow to HD presses

some info on Prinect packaging

https://www.heidelberg.com/us/en/pro...g_workflow.jsp

Signa Station Packaging Pro

https://www.heidelberg.com/us/en/pro...kaging_pro.jsp

Signa Station Packaging Pro Dynamic Takeoff Bars - This is also standard on the commercial Signa Station
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrc10Pcw5D0&t=1s

Please let me know if you have any questions or if I can help. Thanks

Mark Tonkovich
Heidelberg USA

 

[marktonk]

Oh, forgot, we also have Plate On Demand where the press operator would be able to send for a plate remake right from the press console to your Suprasetter. So even if Prepress is gone for the day and as long as the Suprasetter is on, they can order a plate from the console, it will load, image, punch and process automatically. You would also gain look forward capabilities to the Suprasetter autoloader making it more efficient.

Mark Tonkovich
Heidelberg USA

 

[ChrisWorks]

Esko is far, far away from a "cheaper" alternative!

How do you mean? I know from using ArtiosCAD that every little part of that program is sectioned off into paid licenses. Is that what you're referring to?

 

[ChrisWorks]

Esko has a couple different imposition applications - one for packaging and "N-UP" work (PLato) and another for commercial work (FastImpose).

As Peter already acknowledged, this workflow does well with JDF and you can probably use any existing templates you have as long as they meet the standard.

Esko is super powerful and excels at packaging and such. You would appreciate the extra strength in the commercial side as well.

*** I've been an Esko user for over 20 years and have lots of experience with the offerings from Kodak (Creo), Heidelberg and Fuji.

So do you use Preps for your commercial work or the Esko alternative? How do you mean "super powerful"? What exactly does it do that you feel like it excels at over Prinergy & Pandora?