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Slammer
Well-known member
You are quoting from the Daily Fail, sorry, Mail a budgie cage lining of a news paper and highly populistic conservative.
They are not known for balanced reporting.
Quote:
"The Daily Mail has been noted for its unreliability and widely[disputed – discuss] criticised for its printing of sensationalist and inaccurate scare stories of science and medical research,[13][14][15][16][17] and for copyright violations."
They are not known for balanced reporting.
Quote:
"The Daily Mail has been noted for its unreliability and widely[disputed – discuss] criticised for its printing of sensationalist and inaccurate scare stories of science and medical research,[13][14][15][16][17] and for copyright violations."
AP90
Well-known member
If mask are so effective in cutting the transmission of the disease, why don't we mandate them during flu season every year? While the flu is less deadly, are the deaths that do occur from the flu less worthy of our efforts than people who die from Covid?
Also, why weren't mask mandated in 2018. That was a Pandemic year that looks like it will top the amount of deaths that COVID will cause. In 2018, 10 million people fell ill with Tuberculosis and 1.5 MILLION people died. Based on how COVID is going, it wont even get to that number of dead, but yet we didn't take any drastic steps like we are and trample on liberties like we have with Covid. Hell, id venture to say that most people on here didn't know we even have a TB pandemic.
Also, why weren't mask mandated in 2018. That was a Pandemic year that looks like it will top the amount of deaths that COVID will cause. In 2018, 10 million people fell ill with Tuberculosis and 1.5 MILLION people died. Based on how COVID is going, it wont even get to that number of dead, but yet we didn't take any drastic steps like we are and trample on liberties like we have with Covid. Hell, id venture to say that most people on here didn't know we even have a TB pandemic.
gordo
Well-known member
80,000 deaths in the US alone in 2018 from the seasonal flu (and there was a vaccine for it). I guess not enough deaths for officials to notice so no need for face masks, social distancing, or shutting down the economy that year.
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gordo
Well-known member
I edited my original post to include the fact that there is a vaccine for seasonal flu and yet 80,000 still died.
No, I don't have any medical conditions. Repeated blood test prove that, on top of that I have three negative COVID tests from the last three weeks. My physical condition is excellent, I can walk, run & ride a bike for dozens of miles without any problems.
People supposed to breathe fresh air, not the CO2 from their own lungs. People supposed to see each other's faces, not masked mummies. A masked face was a trademark of terrorists, bank robbers and pirates, pre-COVID. They even forbid to wear anything covering a face last year, in France (because of the muslim practice imposed on women).
Slammer
Well-known member
I wish science would come up with a vaccine for American pseudo-science-mumbojumbo.
Unless you are breathing in a sealed fishbowl there is no way you can be re-rebreathing your own CO2.
gordo
Well-known member
Not quite a fish bowl but just as effective. Just don't screw the cap on and you'll be fine.:
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Slammer
Well-known member
Just missing the ducttape around the bottom,
gordo
Well-known member
“Shoot the messenger” is a very commonly used metaphorical phrase in English. It is used to describe the act of blaming the bearer of bad news instead of actually dealing with the bad news itself. It is not a call to take a gun and shoot the student. In this case they punished the student for exposing the problem rather than deal with the actual problem. So, this metaphor usage is appropriate.
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100,000 COVID cases like the one below:
FOX 35 INVESTIGATES: Questions raised after fatal motorcycle crash listed as COVID-19 death
A person who died in a motorcycle accident was added to Florida’s COVID-19 death count, according to a state health official.
OffsetStorefront
Well-known member
If you're concerned that normal deaths being counted as COVID deaths is so rampant as to discount the reality of more Americans dying from COVID than from World War 1 or the Vietnam War, you can compare the "average" number of deaths we'd expect to be happening based on past years and then measure the number of "excess" deaths. If you've got a statistically significant number of "excess" deaths, you know they're being caused by something abnormal.
The CDC has an excellent page explaining this concept with an interactive graph:
Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19
Even if our "COVID" death numbers are off, the huge increase in excess death is occurring. What's most likely to be causing it? Probably a pandemic caused by a novel virus. It's appropriate to question assumptions and authorities and methods after a crisis has occurred in retrospective and to demand better methods and communication in the future, but to publicly question public safety efforts in the middle of a massive spike of excess deaths has a high risk of only adding to that number.
The CDC has an excellent page explaining this concept with an interactive graph:
Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19
Even if our "COVID" death numbers are off, the huge increase in excess death is occurring. What's most likely to be causing it? Probably a pandemic caused by a novel virus. It's appropriate to question assumptions and authorities and methods after a crisis has occurred in retrospective and to demand better methods and communication in the future, but to publicly question public safety efforts in the middle of a massive spike of excess deaths has a high risk of only adding to that number.
Problem is, that in my country the deaths actually lowered. We have a significantly lower number of dead people, than in previous years (comparing the same period of the year, of course). This phenomenon is so striking, that even the 'pro-pandemic' MSM portals had to admit it.
Until this 'novel coronavirus' scam, we had very simple numbers to remember here. Each autumn and spring, we saw an increased number of people coughing, having fever etc. When the weekly number of ill people got close to 10000 per week, the authorities issued a warning, that a flu pandemic is closing on us. When the weekly infections rose to 15000, they declared a flu pandemic, and... nothing happened. The only thing we had to give up is the visits to hospitals. After some weeks they simply declared that the pandemic is over.
Now compare this with the fact that to this day, we only have 5000 COVID infested people and 500 (alleged) deaths caused by the virus (it's a small country). 5000 infections for half a year vs. 15000 per one week. Is there a pandemic at all? I consider the actions of all the governments as zealous and absolutely unnecessary.
Slammer
Well-known member
Imagine the government did nothing, or next to nothing like the US or the dumpster fire in Brazil, or the UK etc. It seems that the majority of "conservative" lead countries have the highest Corvid count an the highest death toll to report.
Trying to nice talk and pretty up the statistices for this virus is dangerous.
I guess the covid statistics are 'prettied up', but in a different way you've tried to imply. It tells the whole scam away, that the news are loud about the covid case counts. Why are the other (admittedly more serious) mediacal conditions are not counted the same way? We have to hear the covid numbers in every hour? OK, let's do it! But why not hear the current numbers (in every hour) caused by heart attack, AIDS, cancer, diabetes, pneumonia, dementia etc. Are they not that important? Are these medical conditions somehow disappeared and only covid cases exist? I guess the reason is the following: if they would publish all the death data honestly, then somehow the math would not add up, would not support the covid madness. To push the covid case numbers higher, they have to be very quiet about other deaths. The total number of deaths (at least here) is not increased but decreased in the last few months. Add this to the info about the number of covid deaths, and it suggests that people somehow forgot dying in car crashes, stabbings, suicide, and in all the common medical conditions. People now prefer to die in covid, this is very trendy in 2020!
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PricelineNegotiator
Well-known member
Or, you could be like NZ and literally lock down your country "air tight" and get applauded by every news outlet on the planet for doing the right thing for 102 days...and then somehow end up with 4 cases of China Virus out of thin air. Where did those four cases come from? It's quite obvious that Jacinda will have to blame someone that "came into contact with a traveler that was in 14 day quarantine". I have a friend from NZ and he is ABSOLUTELY LIVID, that his government risked so much and now has nothing to show for it. He's also quite positive that they have suppressed the reporting of cases. That is not to say that the NZ lock down did not have many positive affects on keeping the infection rate near zero.
I think you should keep in mind that you cannot compare X country to Y country directly. There are many variables that exist between the United States and Germany (I think you're from Germany or Austria), that contribute in their own way to case and death count. You are foolish to think that things could be drastically better in the United States without completely demolishing our economy.
AC Prepress
Well-known member
Gordo, the article you reference is from May. They've more recently posted a review from JAMA of the latest science and case studies that show that masks do prevent the spread of COVID19.
"CDC reviewed the latest science and affirms that cloth face coverings are a critical tool in the fight against COVID-19 that could reduce the spread of the disease, particularly when used universally within communities. There is increasing evidence that cloth face coverings help prevent people who have COVID-19 from spreading the virus to others."
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gordo
Well-known member
Gordo, the article you reference is from May. They've more recently posted a review from JAMA of the latest science and case studies that show that masks do prevent the spread of COVID19.
"CDC reviewed the latest science and affirms that cloth face coverings are a critical tool in the fight against COVID-19 that could reduce the spread of the disease, particularly when used universally within communities. There is increasing evidence that cloth face coverings help prevent people who have COVID-19 from spreading the virus to others."
I would hardly call the anecdotal testimony of two hair dressers in a salon a science-based process for establishing policy.
To be effective, masks need to form an effective barrier against the virus. It does not matter if the virus is Covid19, Seasonal Flu, etc. Viruses have a specific micron size. Face masks are rated (among other things) to be barriers against particle size. E.g. they may be a barrier to dust or bacteria which are relatively large particles but be useless against smaller particles - like viruses.
AFAIK, there are no science-based studies that show consumer grade face masks being an effective barrier to viruses, like Covid 19. That's probably why the CDC initially said there was no need to wear them. And is also likely why the CDC didn't recommend the use of face masks during previous viral epidemics - like last year's seasonal season that killed some 80,000 US residents.
It is also why the quote you selected from JAMA report uses "weasel" words like: "could" and "help". The JAMA reports themselves do not reference science-based studies and make extensive use of another "weasel" word: "may". Weasel words, in legal (and marketing) parlance are used to suggest an affirmation when no affirmation can be made. Further, JAMA also included disclaimers about the validity of their report since it is not science-based and its methodology is severely flawed.
Take a close look at your face mask packaging. Here's one typical as an example (my emphasis):
That disclaimer is to prevent the vendor being sued if someone buys the mask believing that it offered any protection against Covid 19 - because it doesn't. You'll find similar wording on other consumer grade face masks since all manufacturers want to avoid litigation.
If you feel better by wearing a mask, then by all means wear one. Just don't expect it to do anything to protect you or others from the virus.
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