FlightDeck
Active member
Hello all,
I'm a photographer who is a noob to the print side of the equation. I am trying to pull off some projects and predictably encountering considerable confusion regarding colour management. While I've got a good handle on the subject myself on the image processing side, I know very little when it comes to commercial presses, and am driving myself batty trying to understand my chosen print shop. Hoping this is the place to get sorted out![Smile :) :)](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
Here is the situation. I wish to have a photo book printed at a shop who uses an hp Indigo 5000 offset sheetfed press (I actually looked up what all those terms mean!
). They are requesting files in either sRGB or Adobe RGB, so apparently they do the CMYK colour separation themselves. They say they adopt the European ISO Fogra 39 colour space, and calibrate every 120 printed pages. For soft-proofing, they recommend using US SWOP Web-Coated v2. They apparently don't offer their own ICC profiles for this printer with their various papers. My images are in ProPhoto (that's a debate for another day...).
Okay, one step at a time.
1) Soft-proof (in Photoshop). Is it reasonable to use this *generic* profile (US SWOP Web-Coated v2) for any sheetfed press and with different paper options? In my limited understanding it would seem to render the entire colour management effort pointless, but what do I know.
2) Is it common for a commercial printer to withhold ICC profiles for their printer and paper? When pressed about this, I was told they consider it proprietary information. When dealing with photo printers, my experience is that the mark of a good shop is they will always have their ICC profiles available for you to use.
3) I assume the Indigo 5000 recognizes embedded profiles. What rendering intent will it use to convert from Adobe RGB to CMYK, so I may soft-proof with the same rending intent? The shop says Relative Colorimetric. Not Perceptual?
4) Does this system have the ability to accept a ProPhoto RGB file directly and convert it appropriately to CMYK?
5) How does the gamut map of this printer compare to Adobe RGB? Or ProPhoto RGB? I know, "it depends on the paper..." Where could I see a graph of this?
6) I am coming to believe that soft-prooing for CMYK while still in ProPhoto is pointless, as I still have to convert the file down to Adobe RGB before submitting to the printer. This may naturally incur some gamut "compression" thus altering a few colours, rending any soft-proof invalid. It would seem to me I should convert the files in question into Adobe RGB first (using whatever rending intent looks best), then softproof for CMYK in Adobe RGB. Does this seem best?
7) Their file submission software appears to work through PDF somehow. Near as I can tell it compiles the images and layout into a big PDF file and sends it to the printer. Is PDF a colour-aware format? Will Adobe RGB carry through in it?
Note I've asked all of these questions to the printer. To me, the answers all seem essential to ensuring I do the right things on my end to achieve the optimum colour output on paper. Their response was we've given you all the information you need, can't give you any more, it's what we tell professional photographers, etc. It leaves me feeling that trying to colour manage with this printer may be pointless. Should I find another printer?
Thanks and regards,
KDJ
I'm a photographer who is a noob to the print side of the equation. I am trying to pull off some projects and predictably encountering considerable confusion regarding colour management. While I've got a good handle on the subject myself on the image processing side, I know very little when it comes to commercial presses, and am driving myself batty trying to understand my chosen print shop. Hoping this is the place to get sorted out
Here is the situation. I wish to have a photo book printed at a shop who uses an hp Indigo 5000 offset sheetfed press (I actually looked up what all those terms mean!
Okay, one step at a time.
1) Soft-proof (in Photoshop). Is it reasonable to use this *generic* profile (US SWOP Web-Coated v2) for any sheetfed press and with different paper options? In my limited understanding it would seem to render the entire colour management effort pointless, but what do I know.
2) Is it common for a commercial printer to withhold ICC profiles for their printer and paper? When pressed about this, I was told they consider it proprietary information. When dealing with photo printers, my experience is that the mark of a good shop is they will always have their ICC profiles available for you to use.
3) I assume the Indigo 5000 recognizes embedded profiles. What rendering intent will it use to convert from Adobe RGB to CMYK, so I may soft-proof with the same rending intent? The shop says Relative Colorimetric. Not Perceptual?
4) Does this system have the ability to accept a ProPhoto RGB file directly and convert it appropriately to CMYK?
5) How does the gamut map of this printer compare to Adobe RGB? Or ProPhoto RGB? I know, "it depends on the paper..." Where could I see a graph of this?
6) I am coming to believe that soft-prooing for CMYK while still in ProPhoto is pointless, as I still have to convert the file down to Adobe RGB before submitting to the printer. This may naturally incur some gamut "compression" thus altering a few colours, rending any soft-proof invalid. It would seem to me I should convert the files in question into Adobe RGB first (using whatever rending intent looks best), then softproof for CMYK in Adobe RGB. Does this seem best?
7) Their file submission software appears to work through PDF somehow. Near as I can tell it compiles the images and layout into a big PDF file and sends it to the printer. Is PDF a colour-aware format? Will Adobe RGB carry through in it?
Note I've asked all of these questions to the printer. To me, the answers all seem essential to ensuring I do the right things on my end to achieve the optimum colour output on paper. Their response was we've given you all the information you need, can't give you any more, it's what we tell professional photographers, etc. It leaves me feeling that trying to colour manage with this printer may be pointless. Should I find another printer?
Thanks and regards,
KDJ