how's business

[rbailleu]

this is the lounge. so, how is business in your neck of the woods. I had a supplier in today saying they hit a wall in november. very low sales. this guy doesn't sell to printers per se, but does sell to manufacturers/people who make stuff. some people talking on printplantet about being out of work. it almost too scary to think about. to the guy that got laid off I feel for you. I can not imagine looking for work in this environment. I also heard paper prices were going to fall. I will believe it when I see it.

 

[Michael Josefowicz]

Think about sales or own your own or with some friends

Think about sales or own your own or with some friends

No info on the topic question, as I'm no longer in the game. But, if you have the bad luck of getting the layoff notice or are rightly worried about it. Think about bringing in work.

The thing is many of the folks who are paid to bring in the work don't understand production. You do. Plus if you are on the income side instead of the expense, you control your future. You get to eat what what you kill. If you get lucky enough to get a little a success, no one is going to fire you. The worse business gets, the more valuable you are.

To make a living you need maybe three sometimes two accounts. Plus you get to mostly stay at home at your computer and mostly talk to people you like. Plus you know how to talk to production to get stuff done. It's a little scary if you haven't done it before, but it's a lot less scary than waiting for people who often don't know what they're doing to tell you they no longer need your services.

 

[MarketMaven]

Business seems to be steady. The Holiday season is upon us and we have some plans for 2009, but I really think that the environmental issues we face are putting a major hurt as well as the economic climate.

 

[plategirl]

I work for a newspaper and sales seem down. A lot of last minute sales...seriously, they're still selling ads even as we go to press. Just printed a Saturday edition with--get this--20 pages (6-4-6-4). This time last year this particular paper's editions averaged 8-8-8-8. Never a good sign. But I'm not overly worried about job security--only 3 people to work 13 shifts, and at the pay scale we're getting, nobody wants a transfer to prepress hell. Of course I'm assuming we won't go out of business entirely...I really don't want to think about it. Good luck to us all--in another 50 years, printing might very well have gone the way of the dinosaurs.

Where are you hearing about a reduction in the price of paper? That WOULD be nice.

 

[mattf]

I work for a newspaper and sales seem down. A lot of last minute sales...seriously, they're still selling ads even as we go to press. Just printed a Saturday edition with--get this--20 pages (6-4-6-4). This time last year this particular paper's editions averaged 8-8-8-8. Never a good sign. But I'm not overly worried about job security--only 3 people to work 13 shifts, and at the pay scale we're getting, nobody wants a transfer to prepress hell. Of course I'm assuming we won't go out of business entirely...I really don't want to think about it. Good luck to us all--in another 50 years, printing might very well have gone the way of the dinosaurs.

Where are you hearing about a reduction in the price of paper? That WOULD be nice.

Paper price reduction? That would be nice considering our shops expenses are around 23% for paper. I'd be ok with a decrease.

Our business is slower then last year. We just had two rounds of layoffs, and now we are at an extreme case of skeleton crew. I don't think we can get rid of anyone else save for some office personnel, but that is even pushing it.

In the grand scheme of things, many companies aren't doing so good in this economy; especially printing companies. I've heard many outlooks on how things will or will not get better, but the news changes everyday with huge bailouts, WHERE IS MY BAILOUT HUH!??, companies going under and the markets all around the world slowing down.

We are in a recession, and many have said this could be worse then the 80's version, so this might even rival the 30's great depression. Lets hope it doesn't come to that, but as I'm seeing it is only going to get worse before it gets better.

As a printer, I believe the only way to survive now is to broaden into different avenues of products. We cannot just print and thats it, we have to do other things. Sure huge companies like 24 hour print or vista print can just print, but the smart companies like R.R. Donnelly spread out into many different markets. Whether printers can do this or want to do this is their own issue they need to address, but I can only hope the economy will bounce back.

 

[Urbanfresh]

Paper Prices

Paper Prices

Hi,

I just wanted to reply in defence of the paper merchants and pricing. I have had over 15 years experience in paper merchanting ( I now run my own environmental print consultancy since 2004) In 1990 when I started paper was more expensive than it is now. Over the years technology and margin squeezing has forced prices down. I know the anguish of telling a customer that the prices are going up. At the moment here in Australia all the merchants have no choice but to pass on increases.
With the slowing economy pices may shift slightly but don't hold your breath, merchants will need to hold any margins they can to stay afloat, remember, that's what they do.

My suggestion, if you want value for money, ask what else your merchant can offer you instead of a price reduction. You mat be pleasantly surprised.

Cheers

Kristina Holdorf

 

[Jecclr2003]

It really depends on the week really.

Some weeks we're balls to the wall, piled up with work...
The next we're sitting around archiving our previous work because we have nothing to do.

With the holidays right around the corner and advertising budgets being spent. I have a feeling it's going to be a long winter.

 

[Santa]

With the holidays right around the corner and advertising budgets being spent. I have a feeling it's going to be a long winter.[/QUOTE]



I could not agree more. Budgets are locked in for this year, but I expect next years budgets to me much different. That could be good or bad depending on where the $$$ gets placed.

More Bang for your buck is gonna me the battle cry and we are trying to package multiple pieces of collateral, across conventional, wide-format, and traditional offset platforms into one in order to compete against Radio, TV, Newspaper, and Internet.

We also have Mom going to church twice a week.

 

[adbox]

It really depends on the week really.

Some weeks we're balls to the wall, piled up with work...
The next we're sitting around archiving our previous work because we have nothing to do.

With the holidays right around the corner and advertising budgets being spent. I have a feeling it's going to be a long winter.

It's like this in our office too.

Overall our sales have been up. From my conversations with people in the office, our business hasn't actually been affected too much because we have allot of repeating business from small business accounts.

It turns that people competing with us (in the printing industry) are suffering because they are losing their larger accounts. Well we aren't dependent on those apparently, and for this reason we are protected.

Changing direction:
The sales-rep in the office beside me says he fears this season. But the sales rep across the hall says she expects a busy season, because our winter season is usually very strong.

So it seems to be like this: We probably can expect to see a decrease in business from our static larger accounts, and a steady, possibly even increase in our smaller account sales.

 

[rbailleu]

we have kind a a future forecasting customer. when things get bad they started laying off 6 months prior. when the economy is picking up on a national basis they started hiring 3 months prior. its a large company in our small town and you hear about the layoffs the minute they happen. of course when they are hiring we print their job applications. they usually have between 500 to 700 employees when busy. and 100 when not. Their backup lot where they store product when the main lot is full has been empty for a year. it has not been empty in the 38 years I have been alive. and by all accounts the worst several long time employees have seen in many years. they build trailors for large national trucking companies. we do very little printing for them so thats not my issue. there have been a lot of ups and downs in the past 20 to 30 years and never have they seen it this bad. if no ones buying trailors, then no ones shipping products. I am a little worried for the nation as a whole. that being said we had the biggest 4 days of production friday thru wednesday that we have seen all year. but october was clean the press month.

 

[Michael Josefowicz]

Interesting thread.

Maybe what we are seeing that big corporations are the dying dinosaurs and small business are the smart mammals? It makes lots of sense that many small customers is a lot safer than a couple of large ones. The problem of course is moving from one culture to another.

But given everything that is happening on the net with photo books, 1 800- postcards, 4 over plus some of the observations shared in this thread, it might turn out that small niches and looking down inside of up may turn out to be the best way to go.

 

[JaimeZ]

One client Isuzu stopped selling cars (SUVs) this year in North America, $80,000 gone. Another company decided not to do trade shows this year $100,000 gone. Add a couple of more clients who have slashed their advertising budget and we're down a little over 30% this year.

I'm looking into starting a headshot business for starving actors in the San Fernando Valley, CA; it seems they still need headshots in a good or bad economy. The upside is we already have the equipment, just need to advertise it and they pay upfront--which is similar to a lot of small companies mentality.

Yes large clients are nice until there gone, then when there gone, a big time ouch!

 

[dynamicprinter]

Summer was bad for me when gas hit $4, I was down 15%.
Since mid September I've been going steady and now up 6% from last year.
Most off my bigger accounts left years ago - went in house or moved out of state.
Been running off of small to med size businesses for the last couple years.
I'm a small shop and can run pretty lean if needed.

 

[Jecclr2003]

Thankfully we're doing fine. We're turning a profit, the jobs keep rolling in and we have a great reputation that helps us out a LOT.

Our big contracts look to be uping how much the give us in the new year, so that'll be a nice touch.

 

[rbailleu]

I was talking to a supplier earlier this week that heard gm sent out letters to some printers saying they were not getting paid and they don't need any more printing. ouch.

 

[JaimeZ]

And GM wants a bail out?

My question is who's going to bail us out should the printing industry get worse...?

Yes I thought so--NOBODY--we're on our own friends!

 

[adbox]

And GM wants a bail out?

My question is who's going to bail us out should the printing industry get worse...?

Yes I thought so--NOBODY--we're on our own friends!

There is always a market for printing.

 

[JaimeZ]

adbox,

Thanks for the response, but the statement/question is rhetorical. Companies that make bad decisions with antiquated modes of doing business should be aloud to fail and better more efficient companies will rise up to take their place. If GM/Ford/Chrysler and their unions are not going to make wholesale changes and become more efficient like the foreign plants here in the United States (ie. Toyota, Honda, Volkswagen to name a few) then they should be allowed to go bankrupt. Recall that Chrysler was in this position back in the 1980's and now there back with their hand out for another bailout.

We in the printing industry get no help from the government (the taxpayer) when we make bad business decision--we just fade into that "good night" and other more efficient firms take over.

 

[rbailleu]

the funny thing gm has the largest share of the chinese market at approx 6 to 9 % there are over 100 automakers in china. the problem is the us does not have enough car makers to so that no one is too big to fail. the automakers need to reduce over head that means more than the union and management wages. no more jets, no more corporate perks. on the printing side. there used to be 4 printers in my small town, now there is one. there used to be 10 ladies dress shops. now there is walmart. yes there will always be a need for printing. but how much. ever heard well I can get 100 business card online for free. but it wasn't exactly what I wanted. well a yukon isn't exactly the perfect car either, but I bought mine in town. I am sorry did I get off track. somewhere. printing isn't exactly what it used to be. but some will always be busy and some will never be. but the big printers run to such tight tolerances they will get nailed in a down economy. if you run on 5% margins. when business is off by 10 % or20% then look out. the house of cards will come tumbling down.

 

[ondemandbindery]

I had a pretty good year for a startup company. But I have had 3 problems this year which I am now evaluating. Printers are not paying their bills. Well, let me say most of them that I have dealt with so far have not been user friendly about writing me a check. Problem 2 for me is that I am not really in a niche market for printing so I "compete" against printers for their own work which means either over capacity, equipment failure, or them getting the tougher job out of the shop so they can make way for the better producing work. And problem 3 is Big Printers are in trouble. Trying to market finishing in this economy is very strained and I am thinking I already have a full bindery in place and maybe putting ink on paper is a viable option since equipment can be had very, very cheap right now. But of course every printer would tell me it would do me in but a year later I am not so sure about that. I am in alot of shops in my area and lean and mean would be my advice for anybody. This should be an interesting year.

JW