HP Indigo 5500

[ian]

We are currently looking at the HP Indigo 5500.. can people please give me your input. We currently have a Presstek DI34 and are looking to complement the press, so quality and consistency are the utmost importance. We also print group runs of business cards and postcards on the DI.
Does the HP have the capability to run this kind of work and the printing sold as press quality work?? How reliable is their service and what kind of downtime is expected.
So far all the samples they have run for us are very good.

thanks
ian

 

[mitragrafika]

Re: HP Indigo 5500

Hi Ian.
HP Indigo is a very good machine.
But you have to consider more if your job must be printed on fancy paper.
If your job commonly print on coated/uncoted paper, HP is a good choice.
But if your job print a lot on fancy/textured paper, then consider to buy other

 

[SlaveToTheMan]

Re: HP Indigo 5500

We're running a 5500 Model, and speaking for quality & consistency - it's largely impacted by how reliable & diligent your operator is. Keep up on maintenance, much of it daily, and it should treat you well. We've run into a few issues with field upgrades taking us down (we're currently stuck waiting on a part from HP that has us unable to run large solids & screens cleanly. 5 days and counting on that one) but by & large they're very responsive and fast to act.

As for selling work as offset press quality - again it's up to your staff & how much care they put into each job. We've run some amazing things on the previous model from what you're considering, so I know it's possible.

The substrate issue is one consideration. If it's not sapphire coated, it won't hold ink. Period. I know that more paper houses are coating their stocks for Indigo runs, so it's getting better for sure, but some sales people will balk at the smaller than offset options.

Good luck with the purchase, report back!

 

[jlind]

Re: HP Indigo 5500

Ian:
I think the quality issue will not be a problem. It is the most offset like of all digital printing, well, it IS offset from a blanket. It is waterless offset, so it'll be the closest of all to the DI34. The sapphire treating thing is a dilemma. The Indigo will print on anything but envelopes. But, if it's going into the mail, you better be ready to put a coating on, even varnish or water based coating, even if the piece is in an envelope. Other than that, the work is beautiful, and you can sell it all day long.

John Lind
Cranberry Township, Pa
724-776-4718

 

[ian]

Re: HP Indigo 5500

Thank you for your input everyone.. few more questions to some of the comments.
How bad is the situation with adhering to paper??, currently we have a xerox 6060 and a xerox 242 and havent had any complaints, as for the DI.. it holds it own. There are two major reasons for using looking at the Indigo
1. Avoid the weekly group runs and do individual postcard/business card runs for upto 5000 Qty with options of UV one sided or no UV at all as our clients are currently looking for matte finishes
2. Print short run booklets and be cost effective on them. Both our xerox equipment cannot print double sided on silk or gloss paper, they break within and hour if we do so.

last but not least.. paper cost is a huge concern.. we currently buy paper from 3 different merchants depending on the clients requipments, some are willing to pay extra for better stock but most of them want the cheap down and dirty gloss papers. Is the HP ink going to work on those stocks or I have to buy expensive treated paper to make things work?

thanks
ian

 

[jlind]

Re: HP Indigo 5500

Ian:
In my experience, you can feed anything but envelopes through an Indigo. The ink adhesion thing is an issue when going through the post office sorting equipment. They have coating units for NexPress and IGen too, implying that it's the harsh handling of the postal belts. If it's a mailing promotion, just coat it.

John Lind
Cranberry Township, PA
724-776-4718

 

[ian]

Re: HP Indigo 5500

What about the papers that have to be all Saphira coated to print on it. If all we are going to print is gloss paper then our current equipment handles that fine. We are looking for a digital solution to print different materials like synthetic paper, linen, laid, 130lb uncoated cover, recycled papers, silk papers etc...
We do have a UV coater but most people dont want the shine and want different stocks

ian

Edited by: Ian on Jul 9, 2008 9:16 PM

 

[JRV]

Re: HP Indigo 5500

Ian, if you can let your sheets sit for about a day before going into the bindery or sending to the post office, I think you would be OK. The inks get more scratch-resistant if they are allowed to sit I hear. I think you shouldn't have to pay more than 20-25% premium for your papers and in some cases you'll be able to run regular stocks. I think the Indigo prints a beautiful sheet but then so does Nexpress. iGen prints good as well but not quite up to par with Indigo/Nexpress. You might want to check out Nexpress - from what I've heard/read you get very good print quality perhaps without some of the above issues. Not sure about costs.

 

[V3Synergy]

Re: HP Indigo 5500

In my experience these are the factors for deciding on digital presses:
- quality / fitness for use
- cost
- systems integration
- new markets

I suggest you get quotes and samples for the iGen, Nexpress and Indigo. Create a "test suite" of typical print files and paper stocks. See if you can get the manufacturer to run on your stock; if they can't, get their recommended equivalent sheet.

Integrating the press to your systems cannot be overlooked. I know of a printer that installed a printer and then had to train the pressman to impose the files because they didn't think that part through.

I have a cost model I can plug in lease, clicks, supplies, paper, etc. for my printer comparisons. I calculate a total cost of print including labor and then use the information from the cost, quality and systems integration factors to make my decision.

Craig

 

[ian]

Re: HP Indigo 5500

Thank you everyone for the input on the Indigo. Funny thing happened which will effect my decision in a big way. I found a used Indigo for sale just 12 months old for a very decent price and emailed my sales rep on the cost for delivery/install and training. Got an email back saying they would not support any machine that was not sold by HP directly to me. I was very surprised to hear this.., when I pushed for why.. I was told it is their company policy
Has anyone else run into this issue?
What's even funnier.. they even put a stop to running my samples for me at Atlanta. Wow!!! am I surprised now and of course totally speechless.


ian

 

[fiddle]

Re: HP Indigo 5500

Ian,

I am speechless as well. It seams like a very fast way to turn a prospect off.

We are also looking at a 5500 or a reconditioned 5000.
I am very, very curious as to the "very good" price for the used unit that you found (if you are willing to share).

We are also looking at a used iGen, Nexpress, and Canon c7000. We have already removed the Canon from consideration.

As we have never been an offset printer, where does one go to find a "very good" pre-press person to make sure that the Indigo (or nexpress or iGen) runs at its best potential day-in and day-out?

Thanks,

 

[JRV]

Re: HP Indigo 5500

Why did you eliminate the Canon from consideration?

 

[Vahan Panikian]

Re: HP Indigo 5500

Craig,

You bring up some good points.
For example the the integration of the press into your system is most often overlooked. Training the pressman to impose may not be the best option either, as this will take time. Time away from the pressman's duties to insure quality of print and time for training.
The best practice is to A) automate your processes, since digital press runs are, of course ,much shorter and turn around is intense, traditional imposition methods are no longer valid in this scenario, B) use the resources in your prepress department, this team is already very familiar with computer single page layout applications and they could very easily integrate a simple hot-folder automated imposition solution into their workflow.
The automation aspect is key to a smooth transition of pages from conception to press. The pressman could then queue up the imposed files and run one after another without having to stop between each job.
Also have a look at a solution which will help you automate finishing, another point usually forgotten in the process.

Digital press have a lot to offer in terms of production and new business that can be developed. The best part is automation. Less hands on deck, less manipulation errors, quicker turnaround and end to end integration is now possible with the right simple solution. Hot-folder automation for consistent press ready files , and bar-code and/or JDF finishing capabilities are important factors to look into, to grow your digital production.

Vahan

 

[fiddle]

Re: HP Indigo 5500

Hello Jack,

It is being offered by a third party (if you insist, I will share the name). We happen to have a B&W Konica/Minolta 1050 from that same third party. Their service leaves a lot to be desired.

Also, I really never thought that the Canon output was anywhere near as nice as the Indigo, Nexpress or iGen.

However, it is primarily the service. The third party even offered to "cancel" the B&W lease which expires in about 10 months (which would have saved us an additional $2,500 per month). But, we are just too afraid that the Color service would be as bad as the B&W service.

 

[ian]

Re: HP Indigo 5500

I found two machines for sale, one of them for $225 and the second one for $175. Whats the point of paying such a good price when HP wont stand by their product if sold third party.. infact why spend $400k on something that can only be serviced as along as its owned by you and no body else... hmmm.. is this a trick question!!!.

We have switched direction a bit and are looking at the Nextpress S2100 or S2500

ian

 

[JTP]

Re: HP Indigo 5500

Ian,

Firstly the HP 5500 is probably the best digital press out there.

I have heard of the same circumstances happening with other suppliers.

I think you are best you check with the sales and the service team about pricing and HP's policy. Knowing a lot of sales people out there, I think somewhere there is an unwritten code of ethics that says sales people and their support resources don't like to be taken advantage of.

I am certain they are ready to support an HP Indigo press because their business model is to sell their consumables and services. Perhaps I may recommend my sales rep to you as he is the most sincere, and reputable rep on the block. He is the in greater Toronto area- if that works for you, his name is Marc Raad. You maybe best to reach him via HP Canada.

JTP

 

[ian]

Re: HP Indigo 5500

I do have the same sales rep. In the end HP will generate all the revenue with the click charges.. 4 times more than what the press is worth. I still dont understand the policy.

 

[BertThePrinter]

Re: HP Indigo 5500

You have been talking with a salesman who only makes money when he sells a new machine!
try telling a Xerox sales person you want info on service only, because you want to buy a used Xerox from somebody else. You will get nothing but the run around about why you should buy new, big retrofit fees, blah blah blah. bypass the sales department and go right to service at HP. If it was not deinstalled and certified by HP, there will be a hefty recertification fee. Like others have said, the money is in the supplies and service.
Good Luck
Bert

 

[nissh88]

Re: HP Indigo 5500

I think you still can ask HP on a refurished 5000 /5500 machine. The Price will be cheaper too. Don't get a old machine with refurished because there will be a lot of alignment problem. If there is no warranty, the spart part cost will kill you.


Stock for HP5500 is the same as 5000. Fancy or uncoated is not so good for Indigo Ink. Required coating on a lot of substrates.

 

[JTP]

Re: HP Indigo 5500

What is there to not understand??
It' is a mere code of conduct for someone to respect someone else's lively-hood and to not take advantage of his / her resources.

I'd be happy to offer many examples of what you can do to gain a good partner-supplier relationship which seems to be quite necessary today if any one is looking to gain business growth. Supplier support is so key with anything digital ...best of luck otherwise.


JTP