i don't think i'm supposed to ask this...

[sbs01]

okay, so we're researching all manner or presses, and the vagueness of pricing answers is utterly freakin exhausting. yes, i know, i know, it all depends on the finishing equipment. it all depends on what you want. i know. but really...does anyone know of a reliable way to determine what would constitute a fair market price on equipment from xerox, ricoh, konica or cannon etc...without having to spend 3 weeks with the reps first delving into specs and waiting for a quote?

is there no resource out there on price guidelines? a nice chart somewhere you lovely senior kids have put together for us freshmen and sophomores?

can't help asking bc we got a quote from a km rep who was so wildly over what folks in these happy pages had suggested we should expect that i can only figure he thought i was brain damaged (or, you know, had never sold anything to a chick before...

i'm not even worried about getting "the best deal out there" - just FAIR would be swell...

really, any advice would be great. hard enough to find a printer we like and believe in. add to that trying to find a price we feel comfortable with and any sense of confidence in a sales rep's pitch and really, i'm 2 seconds away to opening a bar instead. (or at least going to one and staying for the summer!

anyway, thoughts appreciated. mostly just exhausted of the come on.

thanks...

 

[OkiTech]

Hi
Konika-Minolta 6500 / 6501 seems a really nice machine for the money, only you have to consider the fact that if you plan to do UV coating of printed product, there should be special unit that is capable of coating after this specific machine.
I saw these in Leasing companies warehouses as returns with over 4 million prints and working - should be a good sign.
Xerox is good for the quality but as per many posts here - prices are total rip-off and can treat the customer badly.
Xante Ilumina is not bad and really inexpensive comparing to the guys above but also slower. How many pages per month are you planning on running, what kind of products?
We have a few of OKI ES-3640e which is about the same engine as Xante, if you think it will serve good for a start and than as a back-up, PM me.
Canon ImagePresses are good only when they run so unless you have an excellent service coverage in your area and they will put in writing how quick they can fix it and under what condition they will replace it - don't go for it.
Ricoh - neeeeeeeeeeeh, not yet.

 

[sbs01]

why no on ricoh...

why no on ricoh...

appreciate the thoughts (altho will be honest, i was secretly more hoping for details like "the xerox 700 should be $35k if you're not getting screwed with your pants on!"

a girl can dream.

BUT...after a rather happy ricoh test today, i am curious why you are so adamantly against....of course, a good demo can make a girl wobbly in the knees, doesn't mean she needs to get married, but sometimes she needs a good talking to from a wise elder....which is to say, i'm listening!

and thanks!

 

[michaelejahn]

There are laws ( ? )

There are laws ( ? )

appreciate the thoughts (altho will be honest, i was secretly more hoping for details like "the xerox 700 should be $35k if you're not getting screwed with your pants on!"

I am no lawyer and have no wisdom, knowledge to impart or even comment on the "..with you pants on" part of you post ( am sooooo staying away from asking questions about that...)

But, I had always thought there were some legal reason that prohibited us from sharing pricing and such things on a public forum.

But I just spent some time looking and searching via google, and can't seem to find anything.

In the age of the internet, where you can scan a barcode of a product in one store to discover you can buy it in some other store cheaper, well - I think this is not the case...

The issue really is that two people can buy the same thing, and depending on the deal they cut (term, trade-ins, consumable/support/maintenance/ bundles = and where you actually are (support in Chicago might be cheaper than Iceland) - it is tough to compare deals.

Hope this helps

 

[X33]

But, I had always thought there were some legal reason that prohibited us from sharing pricing and such things on a public forum.

I think there is. Somewhere in the fine print it usually explains the confidentiality of the agreement.

But I just spent some time looking and searching via google, and can't seem to find anything.

you can probably find the MSRP prices to have an idea.

In the age of the internet, where you can scan a barcode of a product in one store to discover you can buy it in some other store cheaper, well - I think this is not the case...

Yea. These are not consumer products, nor commodities.

The issue really is that two people can buy the same thing, and depending on the deal they cut (term, trade-ins, consumable/support/maintenance/ bundles = and where you actually are (support in Chicago might be cheaper than Iceland) - it is tough to compare deals.

Right. Every deal/scenario is unique.

 

[sbs01]

thanks...

thanks...

yes, i know all the many detail that can change the price (believe me the sales guys have carried on so about it all!) i'm just looking for some kind of baseline to compare on once we DO take all our little details into consideration.

honestly though, i can't even seem to find reliable msrp info anywhere ("it changes all the time!" say the reps...feels a lot like "if we give you one number and you freak out we'll try a little lower one next!"

if anyone has a good source for msrp info that feels remotely up to date, i'd be super grateful.

and as for the "screwed with your pants on" comment, promise, wasn't trying to be lascivious. go take 5 meetings with printer guys and you'll understand. that was not a metaphor for anything sexual. just painful. (and having said that all have honestly been nice enough guys - it's just there's more to know than i think anyone who ISN'T using the machine ever can, so lots of wild guess answers seem to be given with the confidence of a guarantee...after a few weeks never being able to tell truth from fiction, well, let's just say it's frustrating.)

anyway, thanks for any tips.

 

[Mike F]

I'd try checking the company websites, I know Roland lists their MSRPs in their product descriptions, not sure about other companies.

 

[oxburger]

Have you tried "google shopping"?

I did a google search for the "konika-minolta 6500" and got these results. Don't list by relevance, list by price highest to lowest. If you go price low to high, you'll get pieces parts and if you go by relevance, you'll most likely get parts as well.

Google

 

[Happyprinter]

Market Pricing

Market Pricing

Not to long ago we were in the same boat as you. Somewhere on this forum someone mentioned a company out of Florida that does price comparisons on the different machines. After being very frustrated, believe it or not I would rather shop for a used car than a digital machine, we subscribed to Larry Hunts newsletter. I will just say, it saved me a lot of $$$ on the machine we ended up purchasing. It was nice to see what others around the country were being quoted on machines. I believe we paid $250 for a year subscription. For the ROI we received, I would pay that money any day of the week. Good luck!

 

[JayDA]

All that REALLY matters in the end is the ROI. If you can make money with it, then you're good to go. That said, I know how you feel, I've been there.

When you think they won't go any lower...ask....you might be surprised. I know I have been shocked several times with what we've been able to pull off. They're competing for your business, and you have plenty of options, especially on the lower end of the scale. Make sure you don't let them forget it....I actually think it's kind of fun.

 

[Mike F]

Yea, like Jay said, I'd definitely mention to every rep you talk to that you're also talking to a few other companies, and tell them what kinds of equipment/services/pricing they're offering, especially if you feel there's a certain company you're getting a better deal from. I'm sure they'll be more than willing to negotiate as much as they can if they feel you're leaning towards another company.

 

[Happyprinter]

I agree with Jay, although I do not consider it fun dealing with Digital "used car salesman.(sorry if I offended anyone but that's sure what it feels like.)"
Check and see what others are paying around the country. Determine what you can afford, then, Play hardball with these guys. Let them know who else your talking to and what you are being offered. Time and time again we have taken this approach and you would be amazed the $1,000's that we have saved. Dont ever take their initial offer, EVER!!!! And I know there are a lot of machines out there, some very expensive to the point that you may think that it is out of your price range, but you will be amazed at how much machine you can get for your dollar especially in this economy.

 

[JayDA]

I agree with Jay, although I do not consider it fun dealing with Digital "used car salesman.(sorry if I offended anyone but that's sure what it feels like.)"
.

Ha...I'm a little twisted like that I guess, I like car shopping as well.

Dont ever take their initial offer, EVER!!!!

Don't take their 2nd or 3rd offer either, stick to your guns for awhile, they'll come around.

 

[LKent]

I know Xerox lists their MSRP in their news releases for each/most of their presses. Usually the base price is cheaper, but factor in a $20,000 RIP an the price is upped. This is if you buy it cash money. But if you lease it's another story because it depends...and also your credit might come into play. I know you can get retail pricing from reps at expos. I think geographical location and sales reps commission comes into play also. But it definitely can get frustrating when you just want to know how much it freaking costs and why lol...

 

[cee5372]

See if you can find someone with a buyerslab log-in. In their bliQ section you can find reports of all the new boxes and their MSRP's, the reports also list the MSRP's of all the options. Send me a PM with which boxes you are looking at and I will see if I can help.

 

[arossetti]

Larry Hunt has a good list of pricing for digital machines. Also if you just do a google search of "xerox 700 contracts" or "Xerox Contracts" I have found a good amount of contracts on different local goverment websites - usually pdf's of the contracts that were submitted during different board meetings for approval.

 

[X33]

I've have seen many Larry Hunt newsletters, and I would say that based on what I've seen, probably 50% of the quotes and pricing presented there is somewhat accurate, while the other 50% is totally off. I'm not sure how the data is collected, analyzed and finally presented by the publication.

About government contracts, yes, they usually have to disclose the information as it is from a public entity, but remember that pricing for government agencies is totally different from what a regular commercial customer will get. So it's really not good for comparison.

 

[Zwicker Press]

Subscribe to Larry Hunt's Color Copy Newsletter

He publishes quoted prices on all kinds of machines and click charges every month, as well as user reviews. The only thing I haven't seen in there is the Igen
This little newsletter saved us THOUSANDS of dollars. This first quote we got on a Konica was about 8 grand high and we never would have known otherwise.
(We didn't buy from them after that)

If you are in the market for a digital production machine, not getting this newsletter would be like burning your money.

I'm hard pressed to think of another industry where pricing fluctuates so greatly. I mean cars are like that to a degree, but at least there's a sticker price to go on. It seems to me that one machine might be sold to a commercial printer for say 35k and an identical machine will be sold to a corporate office, that doesn't know better, for 50k.

*The Larry Hunt newsletter tends to only publish the lowest quotes in the country. So, don't expect to be able to get the same pricing, but something close. Tell your salesman about the figures you've seen, so that the first quote you get will be more in line, and then you can negotiate from a realistic starting point.

 

[johnmpcny]

Yes get Larry also look at NAPL and PIA

Yes get Larry also look at NAPL and PIA

Larry Hunt Publications - High Speed and Color Copy News

I just saved over $20m on a new KM 7000, my deal had get special pricing list only for NAPL. Larry has the numbers, there are also special pricing from Ikon, KM and Xerox if your a member of NAPL or PIA. Each has some sort of program, just ask. I just got KM 7000, creo rip, large cap feeder, and large cap stacker with others add on's. Not only did I get a lower click rate, it was fixed for 5 years but also got much lower pricing. Hint if your paying more than nickle for any size your getting hosed.

Ask Larry to look at your deal over and make suggestions all part of his service for a about $200.

 

[printerkeith]

I can recommend the Konica Minolta c6500 for quality and print cost affordability. We bought one used as a repo for about $8500.00 and put about 2k in it to replace consumables to get it up to service quality.

Look on eBay and you will find some great deals, but, beware, you'll probably need to put anywhere from 2k - 5k in a used machine to get it up to snuff. Make sure to get it checked out be a certified tech.

We are having some power problems in our building that keep causing us to lose circuitry every now and again, but, the quality and speed are great.